Survival vs Camping

[Noss]

After reading plenty around the net on survival, it seems many of these "survivalists" don't know the difference between real survival and recreational camping. Many go out camping and say they are surviving under hard conditions when that have a backpack full of store bought food and they only going to be gone 2 nights and only need to hike about 1 mile back to the car.

I'm no survival expert I'm just a weekend camper. I would never hope to be in a true life survival situation as many of these people fantasize about. True life survival situations are serious business and the real people who have been caught in the real deal have been very terrified over the experience. Sometimes they come back without a hand or leg, serious dehydration, starvation,frostbite and illness or disease. Some survive the ordeal some parish after rescue or are permanently scared. This can be seen in many of the news reports about people that were unfortunate to be in these real situations.

If one finds him/herself in the real deal then everything has just gone to hell.

I was talking to another member about this and I figured I would start a discussion on the subject. So sound off. What are your thoughts on this topic.

[Madnumforce]

That's true. For me, a real survival situation is when most people would die, or when your life is in a very serious danger, and when by your skill, intelligence, surviving instinct, you can have a mind focused on surviving, and tricks that make the difference between life and death. Dropped in the vaccum from a space shuttle is no survaval situation cause no one can survive. Losing your path in the flat, forestless, temperate country is no survival situation, cause you can always find humans that will help you after some hours walking, waiting by a road for car to pass, or even enter a reach of reception for your cellphone.

[kurodrago]

I think it has to do with TV and all the shit survival programs.
Especially young are to much influenced by.
Many people think that they have a knife that's it.....
they can travel and live quite in the forest, jungle or desert.
The saddest part is the believe that shit.

[wildjim]

After reading plenty around the net on survival, it seems many of these "survivalists" don't know the difference between real survival and recreational camping. Many go out camping and say they are surviving under hard conditions when that have a backpack full of store bought food and they only going to be gone 2 nights and only need to hike about 1 mile back to the car.

I'm no survival expert I'm just a weekend camper. I would never hope to be in a true life survival situation as many of these people fantasize about. True life survival situations are serious business and the real people who have been caught in the real deal have been very terrified over the experience. Sometimes they come back without a hand or leg, serious dehydration, starvation,frostbite and illness or disease. Some survive the ordeal some parish after rescue or are permanently scared. This can be seen in many of the news reports about people that were unfortunate to be in these real situations.

If one finds him/herself in the real deal then everything has just gone to hell.

I was talking to another member about this and I figured I would start a discussion on the subject. So sound off. What are your thoughts on this topic.

I like to watch Ray Mears and have most of his videos but I wouldn't really enjoy two weeks or a month in the wilderness. But even Ray Mears has help if he needs it.

A true "survival" situation implies life or death decisions and reactions.

I "really" enjoy the solitude of a weekend or three day camping, hiking, bicycling trip but after that it becomes a tiresome ordeal and I want my bath and bed.

I am afraid of large wild animals such as bears, I'd be fine if I could carry a gun but most parks are restrictive of weapons.

[jankerson]

After reading plenty around the net on survival, it seems many of these "survivalists" don't know the difference between real survival and recreational camping. Many go out camping and say they are surviving under hard conditions when that have a backpack full of store bought food and they only going to be gone 2 nights and only need to hike about 1 mile back to the car.

I'm no survival expert I'm just a weekend camper. I would never hope to be in a true life survival situation as many of these people fantasize about. True life survival situations are serious business and the real people who have been caught in the real deal have been very terrified over the experience. Sometimes they come back without a hand or leg, serious dehydration, starvation,frostbite and illness or disease. Some survive the ordeal some parish after rescue or are permanently scared. This can be seen in many of the news reports about people that were unfortunate to be in these real situations.

If one finds him/herself in the real deal then everything has just gone to hell.

I was talking to another member about this and I figured I would start a discussion on the subject. So sound off. What are your thoughts on this topic.

It's a keyboard commando thing really. 99% of the people would die under a real situation.

[Noss]

It's a keyboard commando thing really. 99% of the people would die under a real situation.

Very true. I know one thing. Many of them would die before they use their knives for anything that would scratch it. I just want to know what some of them CAN do with a knife. Everything is always don't do this,don't do that.

[Carney]

Very true. I know one thing. Many of them would die before they use their knives for anything that would scratch it. I just want to know what some of them CAN do with a knife. Everything is always don't do this,don't do that.


Amen Noss! I think some people would die before they would use their knives!

And the survival thing is something we would all like to think we could handle, or be prepared for, but most of those situations catch people unprepared, or they wouldn't be true "survival" situations. (life or death)
I am sure that fire starting, or "dead reckoning" in a strange forest takes on a new meaning when you have a broke leg, and a dead family member!
I love knowing and practicing survival tips, and even being "prepared", but I believe "true survival" is a mindset, that no matter what has or is happening you are going to keep going.
All of the gear or skills in the world cannot prepare us for that!
I don't think any of us can ever truly know what we are capable to do or not do unless(GOD forbid!) we get in a true SURVIVAL SITUATION.:)

[culpeper]

Survival is a situation you either train for or find yourself in a world of shit. In either case you should be ready for it. Camping doesn't include survival unless you count the part during survival that requires you to set up a shelter and find something to eat, which you will not describe if you survive as the camping part of your ordeal. Even hunting is just hunting. You may have great hunting skills in the wilderness and don't know shit about survival so there is no point in equating hunting with survival unless you shoot your dick off and have to know what to do to follow your backtrail and survive. Survival is usually caused by something else. Like getting lost, crashing a plane, breaking a leg miles into the wilderness, and so forth. Most people that are really into survival love to train for it. Few actually have to use those skills in a real life situation. Even rescue doesn't equate to survival. It's the opposite.

[jankerson]

Even if they train for it they will still likely die because more than likely they won't have any of their survival gear with them in a real situation. ;)

It's a stupid macho BS idiotic thing that keyboard commandos love to talk about. :jerkit:

Most likely in a REAL situation the keyboard commando will be wearing his wimp shorts and a shirt because it looks cool and be carrying only his small cool looking folding knife that is scary sharp with an edge profile that will last 2 mins in the field before it dulls. His smart phone won't work because it's broken or there won't be any service or the battery is dead because he was texting all his other keyboard commando buddies.
The keyboard commando has never had any real military training or knows what it's really like to be out in the wilderness far away from civilization.

So in effect keeping it real he doesn't have a freaking prayer of living in a real situation, he will be dead but hey he was looking cool before he died.

[culpeper]

I remember that one guy that went hiking by himself in the desert and ended having to cut his arm off with a knockoff Swiss army knife. This guy was experienced and still manage to not be prepared. Then there was the guy from Japan that was an experienced hiker but decided to take on White Sands, New Mexico. He went missing for a long time. When they found his body he had no survival equipment at all except for a nice camera. Turned out he got bit by a Sindwinder rattlesnake and died from the elements rather quickly after that. Both these guys were just on a day hike.

[jankerson]

I remember that one guy that went hiking by himself in the desert and ended having to cut his arm off with a knockoff Swiss army knife. This guy was experienced and still manage to not be prepared. Then there was the guy from Japan that was an experienced hiker but decided to take on White Sands, New Mexico. He went missing for a long time. When they found his body he had no survival equipment at all except for a nice camera. Turned out he got bit by a Sindwinder rattlesnake and died from the elements rather quickly after that.

I rest my case. ;)

In a real situation 99.9% of people won't ever be prepared because they come up unexpectedly. You really can't plan for it because nobody knows what the situation will be. Way too many variables to take into account to possibly be prepared in real life.

It's a keyboard commando fantasy. ;)

People have been watching way too much TV if they think they can have a good chance of living. :jerkit:

Survival nuts are just that, freaking crazy, nuts, vain, stupid and ignorant. :jerkit:

Reality is that if something extreme happens and people are injured and alone they will die long before help will find them. IF the weather is extreme cold or hot they will die faster.

If they survive it more due to luck than anything you can possibly read in a book, watch on TV or learn on the net and if anyone tells you different they are full of shit or trying to make money off of you or both.

[culpeper]

Another (more recent) example:

http://grandcanyonnews.com/Main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=8306

[Noss]

Great responses men. :thumb:

culpeper: I was going to use your example above. You beat me to it. I read a lot of the "I would never do that" responses on the forums but many would say I would never cut my arm off but people have had to do it. There was the case of the mountain climber that got his arm pinned. He stayed like this for 5 days on the side of the mountain. He finally had to make a horrifying decision of cutting his own arm off. He had a knife but no saw to cut the bone. So he broke his arm and cut it off.

Video of him telling the story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2XLoQ1xYB0

[Madnumforce]

Lesson learned: never do canyoning.Never do any dangerous activity uncessary. Personnaly, i would not think my whole life is worthy of me doing this to my arm. I would better try to die properly cutting my carotid than to butcher my arm like that. Millions people die everyday, some heroically killing others, some stupidly killing themselves, some commonly from a cancer, it's easier to accept your turn is come , as it should come one day or another anyway, then to reenanct a Saw movie with your own arm.

[jankerson]

Lesson learned: never do canyoning.Never do any dangerous activity uncessary. Personnaly, i would not think my whole life is worthy of me doing this to my arm. I would better try to die properly cutting my carotid than to butcher my arm like that. Millions people die everyday, some heroically killing others, some stupidly killing themselves, some commonly from a cancer, it's easier to accept your turn is come , as it should come one day or another anyway, then to reenanct a Saw movie with your own arm.

The biggest thing is not to go alone if possible so if something does happen there will be someone there to help.

[culpeper]

So, I guess it is safe to say that camping is not survival. The military cured me of the camping bug and taught me survival situations are best avoided. I hope I'm never in a survival situation. I know just enough about survival to be dangerous. In other words, no amount of survival training can prevent me from being my own worst enemy alone in a survival situation. To be honest, I think our last great survivalists were the mountain men of the Rocky Mountains. Maybe that is why some people like to play mountain man these days. But not too many mountain men lived to be very old as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKULLRKDjjU

[jankerson]

So, I guess it is safe to say that camping is not survival. The military cured me of the camping bug and taught me survival situations are best avoided. I hope I'm never in a survival situation. I know just enough about survival to be dangerous. In other words, no amount of survival training can prevent me from being my own worst enemy alone in a survival situation. To be honest, I think our last great survivalists were the mountain men of the Rocky Mountains. Maybe that is why some people like to play mountain man these days. But not too many mountain men lived to be very old as well.


Same here man. :thumb:

I have been camping all over the world thanks to the USMC so that kinda killed the camping thing for me.

[wildjim]

So, I guess it is safe to say that camping is not survival. The military cured me of the camping bug and taught me survival situations are best avoided. I hope I'm never in a survival situation. I know just enough about survival to be dangerous. In other words, no amount of survival training can prevent me from being my own worst enemy alone in a survival situation. To be honest, I think our last great survivalists were the mountain men of the Rocky Mountains. Maybe that is why some people like to play mountain man these days. But not too many mountain men lived to be very old as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKULLRKDjjU

I love that movie and I still enjoy camping the solitude and simple tasks take me away from the city life for a while. I certainly do not want to be fighting for my life (survival) while camping.

I've also noticed that some people become goofy and do foolish things while in the outdoors which may lead to survival.

[kurodrago]

Great responses men. :thumb:

culpeper: I was going to use your example above. You beat me to it. I read a lot of the "I would never do that" responses on the forums but many would say I would never cut my arm off but people have had to do it. There was the case of the mountain climber that got his arm pinned. He stayed like this for 5 days on the side of the mountain. He finally had to make a horrifying decision of cutting his own arm off. He had a knife but no saw to cut the bone. So he broke his arm and cut it off.

Video of him telling the story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2XLoQ1xYB0

Unbelievable:eek: how educated person,
go in the center of nothing
(tropical deserted island )
with just Swiss Army Knives:eek::eek:
Mark 5:32!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqb6SG2-9tg&feature=response_watch

[winbag338]

Survival sucks

[culpeper]

Survival sucks

The sums it up rather nicely. I like that. That's a rap! :rockon:

[wildjim]

The sums it up rather nicely. I like that. That's a rap! :rockon:

http://www.winnebagoind.com/

[MonkeyBomb]

Survival is alot about mindset. Lots of "survival" situations. Most are a simple night spent in the woods. Most of the danger can be taken out of it by letting someone know where you are going to be and when you should be back. And then stick to the plan.

I spent a whole lot of time in the high country. Usually hunting and scouting for game. I also ATV and 4 wheel sometimes by myself.

I always plan for having to spend the night if I have to. I always carry at least two things If I even take a short hike. A knife and a way to start a fire. Well and realistically I'm probably carrying my pistol as well.

If I have to spend the night I'll probably be cold and hungry. If its wet i'll be cold wet and hungry. Spending the night outside probably won't kill me unless I was way unprepared in inclement weather.

Most people survive a short duration survival situation unless their injuries and lack of medical care take them out.

Heck for the most part if you climb into a blue spruce tree you willl be dry and out of the wind.

I carry alot more when I hunt. I carry a camelback Stryker with a few power bars, a tube tent, a small sleeping bag ( one of the better disposable bags), a mylar sheet, 3 ways to start a fire, differnt tinder and a modest amount of medical supplies, flash lights and heat packs. Then the usual stuff for hunting like rope, cord, a gerber pax, shears, and a wyoming knife.

I'll probably be able to spend the night in relative comfort if injured while bowhunting in the high country. I have enough to last 3 days without much if any foraging. If I haven't made contact in that time they know the general area to look.

As far as living off the land with a knife and loincloth. No friggin way.

[trib trekker]

So what's the bottom line? Practice the basic and perhaps advance techniques under controlled conditions using as few of your bag of goodies as possible, just in case you may find yourself someday in a situation where proficiency in these areas might save your life--oh but wait, it's a waste of time cause you don't know shit anyway? OR Just don't bother and if you ever wind up shit creek, just kiss your ass goodbye?

[Noss]

Nothing wrong with practicing survival skills. I'm all for it. It's just that some people don't seem to know the difference between practice and a real situation. It's also crazy to fantasize about being in a real situation but many people do. Camping could turn into a survival situation if something goes wrong. I go camping but I'm not surviving because I'm in no real danger of dieing. If a tree falls on me or I get injured and I can't simply walk back out to the truck then the situation has taking a turn for the worse and as time goes on without the situation improving and I begin to fade away then it becomes survival. However I don't go back there camping and have the time of my life and come home and tell everyone on the internet that I survived on the survival forums.

There are some people that can go out in the wilderness for 4 months with basic equipment and survive. These people would be the true survival experts in my eyes. I doubt many if any people on the survival forums have tested themselves in this way. It would be a tough test of ones skills and mind. There was a guy in the news recently that did this for almost a year on some island but some questions have come up as to he was not really far from people and civilization as first reported and people knew where he was since he was making a documentary of the whole deal and this was the plan from the beginning.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/man-survives-300-days-with-knives-pig/story-e6frev00-1225750372418

http://www.the-islomaniac.com/2008/05/xavier-rosset-300-days-alone-on-island.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofua#Tofua_Island

Tofua has a population of about fifty. They are there primarily to grow kava

[jankerson]

Nothing wrong with practicing survival skills. I'm all for it. It's just that some people don't seem to know the difference between practice and a real situation. It's also crazy to fantasize about being in a real situation but many people do. Camping could turn into a survival situation if something goes wrong. I go camping but I'm not surviving because I'm in no real danger of dieing. If a tree falls on me or I get injured and I can't simply walk back out to the truck then the situation has taking a turn for the worse and as time goes on without the situation improving and I begin to fade away then it becomes survival. However I don't go back there camping and have the time of my life and come home and tell everyone on the internet that I survived on the survival forums.



Most of the ones who fantasize about this stuff are keyboard commandos who never served in the military or even the Boy Scouts. Somehow they believe that camping is a big deal and it's really not at all. They live in the city likely in an apartment and have no life so just driving out of the city is a big deal to them. I used to see those types all the time while camping, they are easy to spot as they look like Military wannabies or bought everything from LLBean. Likely the farthest they have been from their apartment is the local park before. Dressed in their fag shorts with their pup tent from Wal-Mart and 3 inch Spyderco they think they are a real Mountian man. :rolleyes:

IMO they need to bring back the draft and soon as most of todays guys are really a bunch of pussies and nothing more than girls really.

Maybe the Military can make men out of them.

[Noss]

keyboard forum survival commandos. :D

http://knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=639&d=1258955451

[jankerson]

Yeah that pretty much sums it up.