Whats with the chopping and batoning of wood?

[Steve45]

Hello, Im new here. I wanted to say I enjoy the knife test videos. Im a hunter in Arizona and in a survival situation here it would be easy to break dead wood off of the pine, mesquite and juniper trees and start a fire or break smaller poles to length and build a shelter.. There is no need to cut the wood into lengths or split it just lay it across the fire and burn it in half. Im guessing that its too hard to break even dead limbs off of your oak, maple and other eastern hardwood trees which would explain all the chopping and batoning. Am I right, or is it just fun?

[jankerson]

Remember it's very dry there were you live. ;)

Most other places that aren't in the desert when you find wood on the ground it's rotten or too wet to use for the most part.

Also they are in big enough pieces that they would need to be splt before using.

[xxo]

I think chopping and battoning are way over rated for survival. You may want to do some chopping for shelter building such as for green wood for shelter poles and boughs for thatching but you can also accomplish this with a SAK saw or a smaller knife if need be. Unless you are building a log cabin or something I don't see the need for chopping large dead logs....except for fallen logs which may block you off road vehicle which it is smart to bring a saw, preferable a chain saw.


For survival, I don't see much need at all to split wood at all, this is something that knife guys like to do.

[Steve45]

Where I hunt in AZ is in heavily forested areas. The wood on the ground is rotten, the best wood to burn is dead wood still attached to the tree.

[xxo]

Where I hunt in AZ is in heavily forested areas. The wood on the ground is rotten, the best wood to burn is dead wood still attached to the tree.

:thumb: Standing dead wood or dead twigs on a live tree are the way to go! Wood that is on the ground will soak up moisture almost instantly and will never dry out unless you have a real durought.

[Noss]

Hello, Im new here. I wanted to say I enjoy the knife test videos. Im a hunter in Arizona and in a survival situation here it would be easy to break dead wood off of the pine, mesquite and juniper trees and start a fire or break smaller poles to length and build a shelter.. There is no need to cut the wood into lengths or split it just lay it across the fire and burn it in half. Im guessing that its too hard to break even dead limbs off of your oak, maple and other eastern hardwood trees which would explain all the chopping and batoning. Am I right, or is it just fun?

Welcome to the forum.:thumb: In my area it's hard be without a chopper. I suppose I could get by without one but it's just easier to chop sections off of downed trees instead of trying to break them off. In my woods some of the smallest wood around 1 inch is pretty hard to break by hand. I don't baton as much as I chop but if the wood is wet then yes I do baton it really does make a difference. I guess you have to look at what you want to achieve here. When camping I like to keep my fire burning all night with little effort. With the battle mistress I can chop some good size wood that will last a while and not just burn up in five minutes. Then I'm not trying to scramble every 10 minutes to hunt and find the next batch of fuel for the fire. Some areas in my woods don't have a lot of wind fall so many times I need to find a tree that has fallen down and chop it into smaller sections and carry it back to camp. In most cases I can spend about 10 minutes chopping and have enough wood to last about 4 hours for the fire. A few nice piles and I'm set for night.

[Steve45]

Hello Noss, you must be backpacking in where weight of equipment is a big factor. I did that years ago but marriage and age have moved me into tent camping with transport and I can bring as much junk as I want. :) Thanks for the answers everyone

[Noss]

Steve45: The area I go camping is not developed camping and I have to hike in from the parking area. So yes I'm limited to what I can fit in my pack.

[xxo]

I like chopping stuff too, I just think that chopping and definately splitting are over rated for survival. I also think that a good machete and a folding saw make a very practical combination.

[Noss]

I'm not sure chopping and batoning is overrated. Even in some of the Ray Mears videos he chops a lot. Also in the videos were he is with the jungle people. They use their machetes for chopping to build shelters. Those people are full time bush crafters/Survivalists also.

[jankerson]

Steve45: The area I go camping is not developed camping and I have to hike in from the parking area. So yes I'm limited to what I can fit in my pack.

That's true, not everyone car camps. LOL :D

It's one thing if the car is 20 or 30 feet from the tent, but if it's 2 or 3 miles away or more taking a ton of crap is pretty much out of the question.

[Madnumforce]

I once had to maintain two fires, a whole night, for 14 persons or so, only with my faitfull CGFBM. My right hand and arm remember it in a very peculiar way, but my memory allow me to say that chopping wood is an important capability to have for a knife, as well as batonning. Yes, finding small, dry branches, in the dark, near a river, when a dozen person is waiting, is some kind of waste of time: better make the effort to take down one 4-6" tree or so, bring it back to the camp and there hack it in pieces of desired size. But, well, I have to admit we all were somewhat gay due to alcoholic substances we had been ingesting earlier that evening, and we were not extremely logical. Yes, trying to light a fire (two, in fact) on a wet river strand may not be the best idea, nor to burn green wood when you're out of dry one. But we only had to do a few steps to take the cold drinks from the natural refrigerator of the fresh water, which is an important argument.

Anyway, this night, I can tell you I chopped and batonned quite my lot for the whole month, and there was no other choice. I was glad I had my FBM, cause no one else thought there might be difficulties to find dry wood to feed a fire for a dozen person a whole night. If I would have take a Ka-Bar, for exemple, it would note have been possible, and the party would have stopped earlier, which would have been a huge waste of bottled ammo.

[xxo]

A machete is different from the chopping I was thinking of. A machete is pretty much essential in the jungle. I was thinking more of some of the guys on youtube who have to chop up a bunch of big logs and then "process" them into splinters before lighting their camp fire. For selter building a SAK saw will do the job, though it is quicker and easier with an axe, machete or bigger saw. For camp fires, I have never needed to baton anything and rarely needed to chop or saw anything. It is kind of fun to do some chopping on camp outs but I just don't see it as much of a life or death thing for survival fire making. Kindling wood should be small enough to break easily by hand and larger fuel wood can be broken by prying it against a tree or just letting the fire do the "chopping".....there is no need to split anything if you know how gather dry dead branches for kindling from standing trees.

An exception may be if you are some place extremely cold and you don't have an adequate shelter and need keep a big fire going to keep warm, than you are probably going to need an axe of a saw to fell and section good sized standing dead wood logs to keep your fire burning.

[Carney]

I'm not sure chopping and batoning is overrated. Even in some of the Ray Mears videos he chops a lot. Also in the videos were he is with the jungle people. They use their machetes for chopping to build shelters. Those people are full time bush crafters/Survivalists also.

And sometimes in wet conditions, and depending on your tree types, you have to get into the heart of the wood to get it to burn. So I am all for batoning. And for making things of wood, spoons, forks, etc, you might have to split it before you draw it. Again this is were there is no easier available source, example; limbs laying around.
And chopping is essential for building shelter, and cutting your wood to size so your not trying to burn 5 or 6 thirty foot ologs.
I chop, baton, and use available broken limbs.
But I belive what ever works for you, do it!
I also like to know that my blades will do it, in case thats all I have. But I am all for the axes also. I think I am about to purchase a "Wetterling" from sportsmans guide!
Good thread Steve45!

[Noss]

A machete is different from the chopping I was thinking of. A machete is pretty much essential in the jungle. I was thinking more of some of the guys on youtube who have to chop up a bunch of big logs and then "process" them into splinters before lighting their camp fire. For selter building a SAK saw will do the job, though it is quicker and easier with an axe, machete or bigger saw. For camp fires, I have never needed to baton anything and rarely needed to chop or saw anything. It is kind of fun to do some chopping on camp outs but I just don't see it as much of a life or death thing for survival fire making. Kindling wood should be small enough to break easily by hand and larger fuel wood can be broken by prying it against a tree or just letting the fire do the "chopping".....there is no need to split anything if you know how gather dry dead branches for kindling from standing trees.

An exception may be if you are some place extremely cold and you don't have an adequate shelter and need keep a big fire going to keep warm, than you are probably going to need an axe of a saw to fell and section good sized standing dead wood logs to keep your fire burning.


I completely agree that you don't need to find the biggest logs you can and chop and baton them down to twigs to start a fire. :D I have no problem finding twigs to start a fire I just can't keep it burning long with the small stuff. If I didn't bring and use a chopper I would be pretty limited in my fuel source. I feel a chopper of some type is necessary gear no matter were you are. I really never understood why many bushcrafters subscribe to the small blade only theory ? It seems more of a trendy thing to do then a practical thing to do. I don't consider myself a bushcrafter though so maybe I'm just missing the point. I just like to make things easy when I'm out in the woods I guess. Like Carney said whatever works for a person. Just my opinion.

[wildjim]

Hello, Im new here. I wanted to say I enjoy the knife test videos. Im a hunter in Arizona and in a survival situation here it would be easy to break dead wood off of the pine, mesquite and juniper trees and start a fire or break smaller poles to length and build a shelter.. There is no need to cut the wood into lengths or split it just lay it across the fire and burn it in half. Im guessing that its too hard to break even dead limbs off of your oak, maple and other eastern hardwood trees which would explain all the chopping and batoning. Am I right, or is it just fun?

Its all good. You are correct as you can just burn the branches tp pieces and re-position them in the fire. Also split wood wood burns better. Cut to measure and split wood allows control of the fire. You could saw wood or chop wood, I prefer to chop wood. It is satisfying to chop and split wood with a knife or axe for me while camping for a weekend. I usually chop and split the wood with an axe rather than baton with knife as it seems easier to me.

[wildjim]

I completely agree that you don't need to find the biggest logs you can and chop and baton them down to twigs to start a fire. :D I have no problem finding twigs to start a fire I just can't keep it burning long with the small stuff. If I didn't bring and use a chopper I would be pretty limited in my fuel source. I feel a chopper of some type is necessary gear no matter were you are. I really never understood why many bushcrafters subscribe to the small blade only theory ? It seems more of a trendy thing to do then a practical thing to do. I don't consider myself a bushcrafter though so maybe I'm just missing the point. I just like to make things easy when I'm out in the woods I guess. Like Carney said whatever works for a person. Just my opinion.

I agree I find a 10 inch knife or machete is the most useful. I also like to carry a pocket knife and a Mora of Sweden knife in camp.

[kurodrago]

Depends more than anything in preferences and where you go about!

I prefer a big knife

I prefer a small knife

I prefer a ax or hawk

I prefer a saw

I take all of them in with me all the time camp or hike." that is me"

Batoning sometimes is a necessity but I do believe that scarcely verry need too!

Only 2 percent real need to baton wood for fire...the rest 98% is just for fun!

Remember, to know how is done correctly is useful:)

Have a good read here;)
http://knifetest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=942

[Carney]

I completely agree that you don't need to find the biggest logs you can and chop and baton them down to twigs to start a fire. :D I have no problem finding twigs to start a fire I just can't keep it burning long with the small stuff. If I didn't bring and use a chopper I would be pretty limited in my fuel source. I feel a chopper of some type is necessary gear no matter were you are. I really never understood why many bushcrafters subscribe to the small blade only theory ? It seems more of a trendy thing to do then a practical thing to do. I don't consider myself a bushcrafter though so maybe I'm just missing the point. I just like to make things easy when I'm out in the woods I guess. Like Carney said whatever works for a person. Just my opinion.

I can't understsnd the "small blade only" theory either Noss. I have intentionally brought only my SOG Seal Pup Elite with me in the woods and swamps to see how difficult would be "bushing" with a 5" blade. When the vines & briars got thick the uselessness of the knife (for this scenario) was apparent. Then I appreciated the Cold Steel Kukri, or the Ont. Spec Survival knife, and even the 7.5" blade on my SOG Super Bowie. I like going out & testing myself with "If I only had one knife" scenarios.
I have found that a large blade can do everything a small blade can do (maybe not as easy) but a small blade cannot do everything a large blade can do. And I don't want a knife that is to weak to baton. Happy New Year & GOD Bless!

[Madnumforce]

I can't understsnd the "small blade only" theory either Noss. I have intentionally brought only my SOG Seal Pup Elite with me in the woods and swamps to see how difficult would be "bushing" with a 5" blade. When the vines & briars got thick the uselessness of the knife (for this scenario) was apparent. Then I appreciated the Cold Steel Kukri, or the Ont. Spec Survival knife, and even the 7.5" blade on my SOG Super Bowie. I like going out & testing myself with "If I only had one knife" scenarios.
I have found that a large blade can do everything a small blade can do (maybe not as easy) but a small blade cannot do everything a large blade can do. And I don't want a knife that is to weak to baton. Happy New Year & GOD Bless!


No, you don't understand! You can also flint-knap and stone polish an axe if you need to take down a tree or hack it in pieces :D

http://www.ginellames.fr/imgs/creations/haches/medium/09-002-4.jpg

Mmmh.... well, better take a steel chopper, or even a INFI one. Sure you won't carve the Angkor Wat temple in an one cube inch piece of wood with it, but that's not precisely the more usefull survival skill.

[Carney]

No, you don't understand! You can also flint-knap and stone polish an axe if you need to take down a tree or hack it in pieces :D

http://www.ginellames.fr/imgs/creations/haches/medium/09-002-4.jpg

Mmmh.... well, better take a steel chopper, or even a INFI one. Sure you won't carve the Angkor Wat temple in an one cube inch piece of wood with it, but that's not precisely the more usefull survival skill.

You do your thing, and I will do mine, and as long as we get it done, we are ok.
We should all "aree to dis-agree", and never think that we hold the monopoly on knife skills and there proper use.
If we become critical of everyones use, style, and brand I am afraid we will become like some other site I know! And I believe that short blade,long blade, cheap, expensive, name brand, or no-name,we all can learn from each other.GOD Bless Bro!

[Madnumforce]

You do your thing, and I will do mine, and as long as we get it done, we are ok.
We should all "aree to dis-agree", and never think that we hold the monopoly on knife skills and there proper use.
If we become critical of everyones use, style, and brand I am afraid we will become like some other site I know! And I believe that short blade,long blade, cheap, expensive, name brand, or no-name,we all can learn from each other.GOD Bless Bro!

'T was a joke! Who would seriously try to make a stone axe to take down a tree? He would be dead in the meanwhile, if the wood this axe is meant to get is necessary to survive. I think even an experienced flint knapper wouldn't want to try to be left alone with his knapping skills to survive. For some, chopping isn't necesary as they can find enough dry wood, that's completely ok for me. I just think for versatility sake a long blade is preferable, and to me it would be almost necessary. But when chopping is needed, one can take a long knife, an axe, a saw, or even a small knife, as long as the job is done efficiently.

[Noss]

In my area I'm not going to find any stone to make an axe like that. :D I'll stick to my steel knives. :thumb:

[Carney]

'T was a joke! Who would seriously try to make a stone axe to take down a tree? He would be dead in the meanwhile, if the wood this axe is meant to get is necessary to survive. I think even an experienced flint knapper wouldn't want to try to be left alone with his knapping skills to survive. For some, chopping isn't necesary as they can find enough dry wood, that's completely ok for me. I just think for versatility sake a long blade is preferable, and to me it would be almost necessary. But when chopping is needed, one can take a long knife, an axe, a saw, or even a small knife, as long as the job is done efficiently.

Sorry brother, all is good. I have been a little defensive lately because on some of the other forums they try to "computer fight" anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as them. So Madnumforce I apoligize Bro

[Madnumforce]

Sorry brother, all is good. I have been a little defensive lately because on some of the other forums they try to "computer fight" anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as them. So Madnumforce I apoligize Bro

No worry Bro! Let's drink a flûte of french Champagne for the New Year, and lotta ale-o'-friendship!

[Carney]

Here, Here Brother!

[kurodrago]

I can't understsnd the "small blade only" theory either Noss. I have intentionally brought only my SOG Seal Pup Elite with me in the woods and swamps to see how difficult would be "bushing" with a 5" blade. When the vines & briars got thick the uselessness of the knife (for this scenario) was apparent. Then I appreciated the Cold Steel Kukri, or the Ont. Spec Survival knife, and even the 7.5" blade on my SOG Super Bowie. I like going out & testing myself with "If I only had one knife" scenarios.
I have found that a large blade can do everything a small blade can do (maybe not as easy) but a small blade cannot do everything a large blade can do. And I don't want a knife that is to weak to baton. Happy New Year & GOD Bless!

I do understand, to me rather than theory is mentality of where you live followed by laws plus media...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLKpOX2K4ro&feature=PlayList&p=23700FB48193CCB4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=23
I can't believe myself I have lived almost 10 years in UK!
And to start a fire in the middle of nowhere....
you have to kiss the Queen ass first:rolleyes:

[Cliff.Stamp]

But we only had to do a few steps to take the cold drinks from the natural refrigerator of the fresh water, which is an important argument.

...
If I would have take a Ka-Bar, for exemple, it would note have been possible, and the party would have stopped earlier, which would have been a huge waste of bottled ammo.

Those are the two best reasons I have heard in awhile, especially the first one.


Who would seriously try to make a stone axe to take down a tree?

I did that years ago after watching Castaway and thinking about what I would do in a similar situation. I did not actually fully knapp the rock, just used some thin shards I could break off. It is possible but it makes the worst knife you could ever think to use seem like a light sabre. You are basically taking little bits off and it is more like being a beaver than a lumberjack. I intended to actually knapp some blades but never got around to it.

[Old Spice]

T

I did that years ago after watching Castaway and thinking about what I would do in a similar situation. I did not actually fully knapp the rock, just used some thin shards I could break off. It is possible but it makes the worst knife you could ever think to use seem like a light sabre. You are basically taking little bits off and it is more like being a beaver than a lumberjack. I intended to actually knapp some blades but never got around to it.

It was always annoying when my anthropology professors would insist that napped stone was sharper then any knife. But nothing they had could shave or cleanly slice paper.

[Cliff.Stamp]

It was always annoying when my anthropology professors would insist that napped stone was sharper then any knife.

The edge of knapped glass and flint I have seen reported as a fraction of what has been measured for steel (sub 0.5 micron) but steel is far more stable with a thin cutting edge, there is no comparison in cutting ability. I doubt however any of guys likely could knapp or sharpen. A broken bottle is likely sharper than any knife they own.

[Old Spice]

I have always heard that. Anyway we did some knapping and it was very funny how afraid they were of the shards we made.

[Cliff.Stamp]

They probably think if you dropped a silk scarf a katana held under it would cut it as well. Theory is cool, but it doesn't hurt to check it occasionally.

[Old Spice]

The deepest irony was how much of the lecture was focused on scientific method, the class taught me more about how to work as an anthropologist then it did anthropology.

[Cliff.Stamp]

“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong”. -- Richard Feynman

[me2]

The article about knapped obsidian is out there. I have it saved in PDF. If anyone can tell me how, I'll post it here. The edge on the obsidian is literally 1/100 that of the .3 micron blades Verhoeven measured (3 nm vs. 300 nm). However, it is specially prepared obisidian, which the article does not go into. Just chipping/flaking flint or obsidian will not get you there.

[Old Spice]

And how well does it support its edge, did he use it to cut anything? I have hard believing that it wouldn't fracture immediately if a person used it.

You can upload it to google docs Me2.

[Cliff.Stamp]

You can download it here :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1273673/?tool=pmcentrez

[Old Spice]

I haven't seen anyone reproduce prismatic blades, or at least any video of it, I'm tempted to try, or at least get one and compare it to some steel blades.

[sixgun_symphony]

IMO, one should carry a hatchet for chopping firewood.

The Marbles safety axe is a good one for the backpack.

[BimotaBoy]

I used to carry a med. size knife for general use and a axe for chopping. Then I discovered high quality large blades. A good large blade will replace many other tools and be no where near as heavy.

[tim37a]

I doubt the bush people tried to skin small game with a machete - they had a knife for that. I back packed for 45 years, until my knees went out, all over the world. I never saw anyone trying to chop firewood or trees with a knife - if you want to chop something, use the tool which is made for that purpose, a hatchet. If you want to pry something, use the proper tool, a prybar. A knife is not meant to do either of those jobs. A knife is for slicing and dicing.

[Noss]

I doubt the bush people tried to skin small game with a machete - they had a knife for that. I back packed for 45 years, until my knees went out, all over the world. I never saw anyone trying to chop firewood or trees with a knife - if you want to chop something, use the tool which is made for that purpose, a hatchet. If you want to pry something, use the proper tool, a prybar. A knife is not meant to do either of those jobs. A knife is for slicing and dicing.

Depends on the knife. Lots of knives are made for chopping and batoning and they excel at these tasks.

[Cliff.Stamp]

I never saw anyone trying to chop firewood or trees with a knife - if you want to chop something, use the tool which is made for that purpose, a hatchet.

Golok, bolo, parang, khukuri, machete, etc.?

[Madnumforce]

And billhook! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

(if you're searching me, I'm outside)

[styx]

Mad you're really hooked on those billhooks

[Madnumforce]

It's just the european counter-proof of the saying that "knives" (I consider billhooks to be an extended part of that familly) are only made for delicate things, and that chopping or batonning is blasphemy. The rest of the world has what Cliff Stamp summed up.

[Old Spice]

tim27 your second post in two years and it is to come in here and tell us that?

[Cliff.Stamp]

It's just the european counter-proof of the saying that "knives" (I consider billhooks to be an extended part of that familly) are only made for delicate things, and that chopping or batonning is blasphemy.

It is an interesting, and very different solution, to a similar problem. The 10" common bowie/spear point knives are just small parangs but a bill hook isn't. The nata is actually a curious almost half mix of bill and parang.

[styx]

It's just the european counter-proof of the saying that "knives" (I consider billhooks to be an extended part of that familly) are only made for delicate things, and that chopping or batonning is blasphemy. The rest of the world has what Cliff Stamp summed up.


Oddly enough it was also modified to be a weapon as most of those other things. And I'll share a little secret, I'm hook too 'cause of you

[kurodrago]

Lots of knives are made for chopping and batoning and they excel at these tasks.

Yeah, but we should explain collateral effect too, when we use that kind of knife...small tasks will be difficult & a pain on the ass to accomplish:p

[GroGuiK]

I doubt the bush people tried to skin small game with a machete - they had a knife for that. I back packed for 45 years, until my knees went out, all over the world. I never saw anyone trying to chop firewood or trees with a knife - if you want to chop something, use the tool which is made for that purpose, a hatchet. If you want to pry something, use the proper tool, a prybar. A knife is not meant to do either of those jobs. A knife is for slicing and dicing.

to drive it's better to take a car and to mail, a computer... but i rarelly have all that things in my back pack... for toose reasons, i prefer having maybe ONE tool i can really trust to do all of that... my knife, by now the Gamma brand N°2(yes !!! i can drive and post with my knife !!!:D:D:D:D:D)

[me2]

Its getting a little irritating that all these innerweb experts keep telling all of the rest of us what knives are for. Thats up to the maker and the overall design. Can tim tell us how a 1/4" thick spine is supposed to help with slicing? Such knives are quite obviously meant for more, though they can still be good slicers if properly done.

[Chum]

I have hatchets and axes... for certain wood chopping/splitting duties a bigass, heavy duty, blade just works best. Especially when splitting smaller pieces of wood... you hit a knot, or the blade just doesn't travel as far as you wanted it to, it's much easier to hold the piece of wood in place by the knife handle, pick up my baton and finish the job, as opposed to trying to slam split it with a hatchet... which you can do with a big knife as well btw.

Nothing to do with survival here, just backyard wood splitting. A big knife definitely has it's place.

I would guess that people who are used to splitting with a hatchet try batoning with some small survival knife because they read about others doing it online. They try some lightweight 7", or smaller, blade and it doesn't work as well as their hatchet. Try a heavier 10" or longer blade and see which works better.

[Cliff.Stamp]

I would guess that people who are used to splitting with a hatchet try batoning with some small survival knife because they read about others doing it online. They try some lightweight 7", or smaller, blade and it doesn't work as well as their hatchet. Try a heavier 10" or longer blade and see which works better.

I don't think they do it at all. It is pretty insensible to argue knives are not meant to do impact splitting when there are purpose built knives for it or all shapes and sizes. Most of these posts are drive-by's only, and in the vast majority of case they are just repeating something they heard.

[kurodrago]

We must agree with the fact that a knife design first of all to be chopper and to baton will never be a slicers. If you knife excel at one or more task, you automatically minimizing the rest. Its up to individuals to find a balance in all the score that satisfy you own...need. To disagree on individual preference it's stupid..the rigth to things to do is...to respect individual preference.
Who ever you're I respect you preferences:rockon: AMEN:D

[Cliff.Stamp]

We must agree with the fact that a knife design first of all to be chopper and to baton will never be a slicers.

If they are optimized for either purely yes, a froe isn't a great chopping tool for example. But a knife does not have to have that thick of an edge to be able to chop or even split wood, depending on how much care you take with either. If the edge is > 0.025" thick it starts to get very difficult to damage it on such work and me2 has been using them at 0.015" thick. Just check the edges on most kitchen knives for example and see how much thinner they are. The thing about larger knives is that there is no reason for all of the edge to be the same either. The forward area on my Junglas is thinner behind the edge than any production chef's knife I have seen for example.

Very basically knives are made to cut, what they cut and how determines how they should be ground. Arguing that a knife is not made to chop is like arguing that a knife is not made to stab. It is obviously false and trivial to give numerous counter examples so it is kind of odd and amusing it is so commonly noted and quite frankly shows the shocking level of ignorance of the people who make the claim. Every single culture has large chopping knives, both for wood and as well for people. A sword is just a long knife if you get past the flowery descriptions.

Rather than drive-by postings claiming what knives can not do, it would be more useful for example to discuss when is a parang a better option than a bill hook, or even more specific when to use a golok over a bolo?

[kurodrago]

Once you started stated that the use of a khukuri its improper to make a spoon but improper doesn't mean impossible.
I don't know how many people will trust a machete's on baton..because I personally don't!..its just a matter of time before a machete used for baton will fail..depends how the machete was HT, out of this we have only 2 consequences, #1 irreparable breakage or #2 devastating consequences to the spine & egde too.
Machete's were born to be grass cutting tools not the less to Baton whit it.
Again improper doesn't mean impossible, it take more time, more skill to do the task but if I must worry to do a task out side of the perimeter designed for, because breaking can happen..
I won't do it.

[Cliff.Stamp]

Machete's were born to be grass cutting tools not the less to Baton whit it.


There are lots of fairly heavy pattern machetes, the Barteaux line has a heavy duty pattern which is not intended for light vegetation. Martindale, Tramontina, Condor and Marbles all have such patterns, the bolo one being the most common design that is intended to cut wood as it is short, wide and fairly stout. Most machetes also come with very steel edge angles which are very resistant to damage.

The only real concern I have with machetes is the low cost can mean a lot of variance in manufacturing but in general I would bet that the failure rates on machetes in impact splitting would be a lot less than a lot of knives simply because so many knives use inherently more brittle steels and do a lot of things to dramatically weaken the design like square tangs, notches/holes in the blade/tang, etc. .

Of course if you take a 1/16" tramontina and try to split anything but light wood with it then it will take a set in the blade pretty easily, but you would have to work pretty hard to damage a full 1/8" bolo pattern.

[upnorth]

I completely agree that you don't need to find the biggest logs you can and chop and baton them down to twigs to start a fire. :D I have no problem finding twigs to start a fire I just can't keep it burning long with the small stuff. If I didn't bring and use a chopper I would be pretty limited in my fuel source. I feel a chopper of some type is necessary gear no matter were you are. I really never understood why many bushcrafters subscribe to the small blade only theory ? It seems more of a trendy thing to do then a practical thing to do. I don't consider myself a bushcrafter though so maybe I'm just missing the point. I just like to make things easy when I'm out in the woods I guess. Like Carney said whatever works for a person. Just my opinion.

I'm at the point now were my head just spins with info overload. I spent all my life running around outside and didn't freeze to death, starve to death, or even break a bone. When I was up in the Boreal forest I simply carried a Becker Brute and, or, a tomahawk. Basicly I have used\carried at one time or another anything from a simple ''Rucksack'' model SAK to machetes or an axe, and everything in between it seems. Lately I have felt the tug and pull of other more knowledgeable ''bush craft'' people insisting on 3-4 inch blade knives. While my interest and instinct is to carry something larger. Don't know if I'm coming or going some days now.

[Cliff.Stamp]

Lately I have felt the tug and pull of other more knowledgeable ''bush craft'' people insisting on 3-4 inch blade knives.

This is a fad, nothing more. It is very likely you have considerably more experience than the people giving the advice, especially when they spout wisdom regarding the cutting ability and ease of sharpening of single bevel grinds.

[styx]

That's exactly why I'm always expecting one more ban lol
When you talk with people here and learn you'll notice actually how ignorant some people are