Bark River Bravo One D-test coming up.

[Noss]

I have had a lot of requests for this knife. So it's finally going to happen thanks to JonSidneyB. :rockon: Thanks man.

So post your predictions if you have any. :thumb:

Knife specs:

Specs:
Blade Steel: A-2
RC: 59
Overall Length: 9"
Blade Length: 4.250"
Blade Thickness: .215"
Weight: 7 Ounces

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=662&d=1263361989

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=663&d=1263362003

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=664&d=1263362026

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=665&d=1263362034

[Falcor]

Noss, you have made my day! Cannot wait for the results especially as I have the two Bravo 2s, one of which seems to get rust spots easily whereas the other is just fine under the same conditions.
My prediction ... I think (or hope) that it will do well - perhaps a 5 Sword

[culpeper]

Here we go again...:D

[jankerson]

This one will be interesting for sure, the secret SF tested knife. LOL

It's not gonna chop well that's for sure.

I say it fails in the body weight test.

[xxo]

Thanks Noss & JonSidneyB!

This should be interesting...I think it will do well.

Noss if you have a Swedish firesteel, please let us know how well it works with the "striker" on the back of the blade.

[Falcor]

Sorry to leave you out JonSidneyB - Thank YOU too!!

[kurodrago]

I have no idea of the robustness of this knife.
Will be interesting to know how the handle reacts to vibration!!!

[Dragline]

Looking forward to it.

Skeletonized tang, right?

[Noss]

No problem men. I hope to test it this weekend.

xxo: I have a fire steel. I'll add this to the test.

Dragline: Yes the tang is skeletonized.

[Ranger]

Being a good bushcrafter of 4 some" blade length, it'll suck at chopping. It's fairly thick so batoning, and spine hammering for that matter, should be ok. I'm most interested in how the tang/handle holds up. Just in time, this one: might have pulled the trigger on one of these before these tests are finished. Might still though ;)

Thanks for making it happen everybody!

R :cool:

[Leighmannn]

Thanks Noss & JonSidneyB!

This should be interesting...I think it will do well.

Noss if you have a Swedish firesteel, please let us know how well it works with the "striker" on the back of the blade.

Having used my Bravo One pretty hard (no, not Noss' definition of "hard") I've found the firesteel serrations (thumb ramp) to be almost useless as the seraations are too smooth the really get a good stike on my steel. I also prefer to keep a small length of hacksaw blade attached to my firesteel; works like a charm, EVERYTIME.

That said, I think the Barkie will do very well and I look forward to the tests!

[trib trekker]

I too have a Bravo-1. Hard to believe the tale of it's inception. The main consideration had to have been availability. I refuse to believe this thing can out last anything from the Busse family, or Fehrman. But there's no way any of these could stock a military contract. I agree the serrations suck. Actually, if you use the smooth part where your thumb is supposed to go, and drag rather than slice the length of the firesteel, it throws a pretty good shower. And since the entire spine works as efficiently, the thumb hump (not supposed to call it a ramp or jimping) is a dumb idea all together. Calls into question other issues of integrity in the design. I predict it will dull sooner than expected for A-2, as does mine. (Take a 2' strip of that webbing, and using the curved portion of the blade, slice the webbing into strips on a wooden bench, and see how long before it doesn't slice anymore. Not long) Chopping won't be particularly impressive either compared to a Rat-4 at half the price. Baton til your heart's content. Stab away. It's the concrete that will wear it down. Won't break until hammers and vices are employed. I overcame corrosion concerns by soaking a wad of string in vinegar and laid it on the blade for 30 mins. per side, resulting in a very cool Damascus-like petina pattern. I love coming up with excuses to use the knife, but I hope I have at the very least my "Last Chance" if down to only one blade in the wilderness. Bravo-1 is better than nothing, but I would have difficulty keeping my spirits up if that's all I had.

[Noss]

Leighmannn: Welcome to the forum.




I doubt I would have had many if any requests for this knife if it wasn't for the marketing behind it.

[trib trekker]

Well, I'm anxious to see the test, as I always am. Funny, after I wrote my opinion, I saw the test of the other Bark River knife you did. I think it is almost gonna be like a re-run. Hope you get more webbing, though. I think that is one of the best tests you have that immediately show edge deterioration, even to the spectator. I found my Bravo-1 cuts well, but doesn't whittle very smoothly. Peeling the apple is a bit jerky, too. Convex has it's pro's and cons. I think hammering through 2X4 will be impressive, but the lateral stress tests with the vice and or hammer will do it in. Lookin' forward to it. I only wish I could afford to send you a Fehrman!!

[dingyu1980]

A2, it said that was a knid of tough steel , right ?
i am interested in it !

thank you Noss again .

[Madnumforce]

Yes, relatively tough steel. In fact, it's a tool steel. Here is a data sheet from Crucible Service. (http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsA2v12.pdf) Just as a comparison, for the same hardness (60HRC), the A2 is about twice as tough as the D2.

[dingyu1980]

Yes, relatively tough steel. In fact, it's a tool steel. Here is a data sheet from Crucible Service. (http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsA2v12.pdf) Just as a comparison, for the same hardness (60HRC), the A2 is about twice as tough as the D2.

cool , man.
thank you for sharing .

dingy

[me2]

Any chance of some pics from the spine and an estimate of the grind angle? Is the grind full convex from near the spine to the edge? I remember reading the maker aimed for a 13 degree bevel at the edge. IMO, convex grinds are over rated. I have a convex ground CRKT Hissatsu. The grind starts 1/4" from the spine and goes all the way to the edge on a 3/16" thick spine. This geometry is not good for cutting, but splits well. In fact, the grind looks very similar to the Bravo. This makes me doubt the claims of high cutting ability for this geometry.

[97guns]

how's this one coming along. having trouble choosing the cast? john travolta might play the part well.

[Noss]

My cameraman is out of town on a job. As soon as he gets back I'll get it done.

[Paul The Brit]

I've got a CPM154 Bravo 1 but I'm still interested in this test! Remember Noss as long as you don't lend the knife to a badger Mike at BRKT will cover it under warranty... I don't think he is your biggest fan though.

Keep up the good work, I'm glad someone really checks to see who makes good TOUGH knives..

[Noss]

I've got a CPM154 Bravo 1 but I'm still interested in this test! Remember Noss as long as you don't lend the knife to a badger Mike at BRKT will cover it under warranty... I don't think he is your biggest fan though.

Keep up the good work, I'm glad someone really checks to see who makes good TOUGH knives..

Long time no see.

That's an understatement. :D The bravo isn't mine so I won't be seeking a replacement. I always leave this up to the owner if it's donated.

Thanks man.

[Noss]

me2: I'll get you the estimate of the grind angles.

[Rufus]

The Bravo-1 is yours now. :)

[dingyu1980]

come on ! man .

"Long time no see."
long time no test:D

[Noss]

Sorry men. I have been busy working. I'm going to get it done here as soon as I can.

[Paul The Brit]

I'm sure hoards of badgers will be cheering you on as you clobber another of Mike's creations! ;)

[dingyu1980]

Sorry men. I have been busy working. I'm going to get it done here as soon as I can.

man, you are my hero :thumb:

no need to say sorry here, you did lots to us.
thank you .

[zhangmaster12]

As much of an asshole Mike Stewart is, BRKT knives arent bad, that Boone help up pretty damn good for a stick tang.

I cant wait to see the Bravo 1 get busted, hell yea!

[culpeper]

The Boone II did good during the test and was meant to see if the Ontario AFSK was any good. The Boone II was selected because it was the closest thing that BRKT designed like the Ontario AFSK though that may have not been BRKT's attended purpose. The Ontario AFSK didn't do near as well as the Boone II. I would give the AFSK 2 swords and the Boone II 3 swords. Though dollar-for-dollar both are good knives. In other words, you get what you pay for with both knives. So, the AFSK and the Boone II are sort of related tests. At least, that was the intended purpose when both knives were originally selected for testing though it was never meant to be advertised as such during the testing because the person that provided both knives requested as such. Now that the testing is completed you now know why those two particular knives were selected. The result is both knife tests can be viewed as independent but there is a story behind them during the planing phase. A little trivia for knifetest.com.

[zhangmaster12]

The Boone II did good during the test and was meant to see if the Ontario AFSK was any good. The Boone II was selected because it was the closest thing that BRKT designed like the Ontario AFSK though that may have not been BRKT's attended purpose. The Ontario AFSK didn't do near as well as the Boone II. I would give the AFSK 2 swords and the Boone II 3 swords. Though dollar-for-dollar both are good knives. In other words, you get what you pay for with both knives. So, the AFSK and the Boone II are sort of related tests. At least, that was the intended purpose when both knives were originally selected for testing though it was never meant to be advertised as such during the testing because the person that provided both knives requested as such. Now that the testing is completed you now know why those two particular knives were selected. The result is both knife tests can be viewed as independent but there is a story behind them during the planing phase. A little trivia for knifetest.com.

Cool!

Cant wait for the Bravo-One. I dont plan on gettin one an time soon, but it would be quite and entertaining test. Rockon! :rockon:

[trib trekker]

As dubious as I have already expressed myself regarding the tale of the birth of the Bravo-1, and the less than optimistic outlook I'd maintain if it were all I had for an indefinite stint in the wild if it were my only blade, I'll say this in it's favor. I used it this weekend in the kitchen for vegetable slicing, chopping and meat carving. I'll be damned if it aint the best kitchen cutter I own! Maybe not the greatest for peeling potatoes, but for everything else--it can easily take a lone position in your kitchen knife drawer! Way to go Force Recon!--ehem..

[Falcor]

Hi Bros. picked this up from BF - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=722411&highlight=bravo

I am not anti BRKT and have two Brovo 2s which I like very much, but I am also a Noss supporter - takes all sorts I guess. Having served for over 22 years in uniform and another 15 in the reserves, yes I am that old, I too am dubious about the birth of the Bravo 1

[Noss]

Okay everyone. I'm going to try and get this test done here as soon as I can. Things have been crazy as hell at work.:headbang: This is why I have kind of disappeared from the forum the last two weeks. :eek:

[culpeper]

Take your time. Don't worry.

[Paul The Brit]

Noss, Mike has just posted the 2010 Bravo 1 gallery on Knife Forums!

It'll be interesting to see if your review helps or hinders his sales... I hope the 'badger haters' knife does well in testing, but I think it may snap like a dry twig under side handle impacts. The tang is skeletonised (as you guys all probably know) and I think that'll be the design weakness that does it in.

[kurodrago]

Yes that thing will crak quickly:Dundoubtedly:rockon:

[Noss]

Noss, Mike has just posted the 2010 Bravo 1 gallery on Knife Forums!

It'll be interesting to see if your review helps or hinders his sales... I hope the 'badger haters' knife does well in testing, but I think it may snap like a dry twig under side handle impacts. The tang is skeletonised (as you guys all probably know) and I think that'll be the design weakness that does it in.


Thanks I'll check it out. I haven't been to Knife forums in a long time. I'm not popular there. Maybe it's the mask ? :confused: :D

[cziv]

Wow

I just spent an hour watching BLUNT-TRUTH on the tube last night and lusting after the Bravo 1. It looked nice but I was concerned about the thickness of the spine and it being convexed. Looked like a big "boat" to baton with after that close-up view of the spine.

I recalled the tang mention and I thought "that don't sound good?" I was looking for them on the web but the black micarta is sold out everywhere. I wanted to buy that sob really bad and ended up saying, the hell with it.

Now, thanks to NOSS, I can watch it be put though it's paces before spending one of my hard earned dollars on it. COOL!! I can't wait :)

[wildjim]

Even at $120 wholesale the Bark River Bravo 1 is pricey for me for a 4.25 inch blade common knife.

[GrimSRB]

when will it be destroyed??

[kurodrago]

Confidential

This bravo 1 test went so bad that Noss want release it OK:D;)

[Noss]

when will it be destroyed??


It's coming. I've been busy and my cameraman is out of town a lot. I don't have a date yet but it's on top of my list.

[Marvin8]

Noss, man, you've been talking about testing a Bark River for over a year and a half. I've seen a bunch of old threads where you've mentioned it. C'mon c'mon already.

[Noss]

Noss, man, you've been talking about testing a Bark River for over a year and a half. I've seen a bunch of old threads where you've mentioned it. C'mon c'mon already.


I don't get paid doing this nor do I charge money for it. I have to work first. Things have been busy with my job that pays the bills. I haven't had as much free time as I did before when I started this site. I finally got to go camping last week for the first time in over a year. I'll get it done as soon as I can.

[culpeper]

Noss, man, you've been talking about testing a Bark River for over a year and a half. I've seen a bunch of old threads where you've mentioned it. C'mon c'mon already.

Hey, what have you done lately? Record some John Wayne movies, drink some wine, eat some cheese, you know.

[Falcor]

Noss, I wouldn't mind if you never test another knife, but I would regret it. You have done - note DONE - more than most and have to take the shit from the those who have not, yet you have continued. As someone who lost his job recently (and we dont have welfare benefits), I know how important it is to keep working to pay the bills. Carry on Sir!

[The Tourist]

I wouldn't destroy a Barkie. Someday they're going to run out of old railroad tracks and A-2 will be gone.

BTW, I rep for a company that sells Bark River, and if you have to buy and/or destroy the sample, at least do it cheaply. Since all of their knives are made from A-2, what difference does it make which one you test?

[Noss]

Noss, I wouldn't mind if you never test another knife, but I would regret it. You have done - note DONE - more than most and have to take the shit from the those who have not, yet you have continued. As someone who lost his job recently (and we dont have welfare benefits), I know how important it is to keep working to pay the bills. Carry on Sir!


Thanks man. I'm sure sorry to hear that you lost your job.:( I hope you find another one soon. :thumb: Hang tough man.



The Tourist: I already have the sample for testing.

[The Tourist]

The Tourist: I already have the sample for testing.

No prob, in a destruction test you're going to lose the sample, so buy cheap.

May I ask why you're testing this particular knife? Is it a new shape, or does the sample represent their attempt to enter a new market?

And why A-2?

[Noss]

The Tourist: On of the main reasons people want to see this knife D-tested is because of the marketing behind it. When it came out Bark river said this knife was tested by a mystery military unit and beat out every other competitor in testing and was the last knife standing. But no one knows any details about these mystery abuse tests except Bark river. Many feel that it was just marketing BS and there were no military tests of any kind. Bark river advertised this all over the net and on many forums. If you look at the ad copy many places selling this knife it mentions the military tests.

A2 is one of the main steels Bark River uses in their knives.

[The Tourist]

The Tourist: On of the main reasons...marketing behind it...mystery military unit...BS...no military tests of any kind.

Thanks, Noss. This is one of the things about the internet that is a pet peeve of mine. Everybody is a 'secret soldier.' Everyone knows a guy who then knows a guy who shot a guy. It's my opinion that when they say "mystery military" they mean they gave the knife to their grandmother, a former WWII WAC, and she used it to trim her rose bushes. They don't want anyone to really know this 'mystery.'

What's wrong with just telling folks who you really are? I'm not even sure the real military can legally endorse a commercial product. Maybe I should start advertising my sharpening services as a "national treasure" by four out of five feudal shoguns in the 13th century. I have a "mystery time machine" parked next to by bikes.

A2 is one of the main steels Bark River uses in their knives.

Yes, I know. And I'm befuddled on why anyone would brag about that alloy. The current line of Buck folders using 420 sharpens and holds an edge better than that ferrous candy bar.

Every month or so I get a smaller catalog from Blue Ridge Knives outlining the knives with clearance prices. You can get a Bark River knife quite easily at some low prices.

[jankerson]

Thanks, Noss. This is one of the things about the internet that is a pet peeve of mine. Everybody is a 'secret soldier.' Everyone knows a guy who then knows a guy who shot a guy. It's my opinion that when they say "mystery military" they mean they gave the knife to their grandmother, a former WWII WAC, and she used it to trim her rose bushes. They don't want anyone to really know this 'mystery.'

What's wrong with just telling folks who you really are? I'm not even sure the real military can legally endorse a commercial product. Maybe I should start advertising my sharpening services as a "national treasure" by four out of five feudal shoguns in the 13th century. I have a "mystery time machine" parked next to by bikes.



Yes, I know. And I'm befuddled on why anyone would brag about that alloy. The current line of Buck folders using 420 sharpens and holds an edge better than that ferrous candy bar.

Every month or so I get a smaller catalog from Blue Ridge Knives outlining the knives with clearance prices. You can get a Bark River knife quite easily at some low prices.

The two companies that I know for sure that supply to the Military are Busse and Strider, other than that I dunno.

[The Tourist]

The two companies that I know for sure that supply to the Military are Busse and Strider, other than that I dunno.

Early on Ernest Emerson sold knives to individuals in our navy.

[dingyu1980]

BUCK ,ontario ，as i know.

[Paul The Brit]

Dan and Jerry Busse have made knives in A2 in the past...

[CJK02]

Tumbleweeds

[The Tourist]

I have to confess something here. I believe that implements define a person's attitude. His personal position is just as important as the product he makes. In others words, "the man influences the metal he sells."

For example, let's suppose that I found a certain section of my market to be stupid and gullible. If so, I would do "second class" work whenever I mingled with them. I think that's an indictment of the craftsman.

One theory about why WWII Kabars were deliberately made of "soft steeel" was that young boys would abuse them, beat them, use them as pry-bars, and very few of them really knew how to sharpen. Those veterans would reminisce how a Kabar would last throughout a war, but their first civilian knife purchased back home chipped out easily.

Possibly true. But that's not a valid reason to resist advances in cutlery.

Is a knife made from A2 the best choice for wilderness camping, or do serious Barkie collectors simply buy them to attain the full set of pretty handles? I do know that my supplier is discounting many of the models in their line.

To the contrary, I remember an old article where a custom cutler offered the old version of CPM-440V available in knives for wilderness use. I find that alloy a bit too glass hard, but he successfully sold it. In our time now, the Graham Brothers offer all of their models in up-to-date Crucible alloys.

Yikes, even Harley has EFI.

I see no reason to offer knives made out of essentially a railroad track for serious use, except for one reason. A knife made from this alloy is easy on their tooling. It makes me wonder if the very sale and distribution of the product is designed solely for profit. Granted we are a capitalistic society, but sooner or later you take the single leading shoe brakes off your vehicles and offer discs to your clients.

If you test one of these knives, you have in fact tested them all.

[trib trekker]

Nothing wrong with A2. Tougher and better edge holding than 1095. The more I try to use my Bravo-1 for miscellaneous chores, the more disappointing it is. I think the illustrious "full convex grind" is highly over rated. For slicing or shearing, it's a lot like using a sharp stone. The blade geometry is just slow to cut without a lot of resistance not felt with other similar size blades. My TOPS Magnum folder does every job more efficiently. (no batoning, mind you). Even though the Bravo-1 has been relegated to "neck knife" duty, I still tend to consider my other options for various small tasks on the trail. Actually, I consider the Bravo-1, my "beater." I've really tried to love this knife, and continue to give it every chance to impress me. Still waiting (though it is not bad in the kitchen for vegetable prep). As far as I'm concerned, this knife isn't worth a penny over $60. Maybe worth a bit more in trade in the coming Apocalypse. If I hadn't paid so damn much for it, I would love to watch it eviscerated!

[The Tourist]

Frankly, a convex edge is done by a guy who can't sharpen. When they trumpet about "more metal behind the edge" they are hedging their bets on the very edge they produce.

Why don't other camping knife producers using v-grinds or chisel grinds fail more often as implied by the convexers? That's because modern steels, HT from guys like Paul Bos and decades of use in the field has confirmed that a convex edge is just a fat blade with marginal uses.

If you like struttin' around a campfire with a railroad track attached to a fancy handle, and once a decade baton some firewood, be my guest. But I slice everyday, and I find it a difficult task indeed to use a dull door-stop made from metal circa 1910.

[kurodrago]

Nothing wrong with A2. Tougher and better edge holding than 1095. The more I try to use my Bravo-1 for miscellaneous chores, the more disappointing it is. I think the illustrious "full convex grind" is highly over rated. For slicing or shearing, it's a lot like using a sharp stone. The blade geometry is just slow to cut without a lot of resistance not felt with other similar size blades. My TOPS Magnum folder does every job more efficiently. (no batoning, mind you). Even though the Bravo-1 has been relegated to "neck knife" duty, I still tend to consider my other options for various small tasks on the trail. Actually, I consider the Bravo-1, my "beater." I've really tried to love this knife, and continue to give it every chance to impress me. Still waiting (though it is not bad in the kitchen for vegetable prep). As far as I'm concerned, this knife isn't worth a penny over $60. Maybe worth a bit more in trade in the coming Apocalypse. If I hadn't paid so damn much for it, I would love to watch it eviscerated!

You will be less impress after the D-test for sure:D

[The Tourist]

At some point the idea of "technology" has to figure into our equations of quality and our expectations.

I've said numerous times that if there was only one alloy I was allowed to use for every knife in every application it would be D2. If I could not have that alloy, I would ask for the 440C blend that is used in Japanese Myerchin knives. My guess is they "sweeten" it a tad with a touch more chromium for use on boats.

Oh, I suppose we could test bronze swords from Thermopylae or iron spear points from some Roman legion, or even an obsidian tomahawk. I like a good history lesson as much as the next guy. I just don't want to carry "history" in a belt sheath.

[cookie_monster]

I read that it was tested by Marine Force Recon Training Units. I can't wait to see results on it as this is one of the knives I'm considering on purchasing.:thumb:

[The Tourist]

I read that it was tested by Marine Force Recon Training Units. I can't wait to see results on it as this is one of the knives I'm considering on purchasing.:thumb:

Do you mean this knife?

Home > Shop By Category > Knives > Hunting
Product Name: Bark River Bravo 1 Antique Iv
Product ID: BA111MAI
Status
In Stock!
Order Options:
Qty:
Description:
Bark River Bravo 1 Antique Ivory Micarta. 9 1/8" overall. 4 1/4" A-2 tool steel blade. Full tang. Antique ivory micarta handles. Lanyard hole. Molded black Kydex belt sheath.

[Riverdweller]

So when will this test take place??

[cookie_monster]

Do you mean this knife?

Home > Shop By Category > Knives > Hunting
Product Name: Bark River Bravo 1 Antique Iv
Product ID: BA111MAI
Status
In Stock!
Order Options:
Qty:
Description:
Bark River Bravo 1 Antique Ivory Micarta. 9 1/8" overall. 4 1/4" A-2 tool steel blade. Full tang. Antique ivory micarta handles. Lanyard hole. Molded black Kydex belt sheath.

Should be the same one. Not the antique one though.

"The Bravo-1 knife was developed with the assistance of the U.S. Marine Corp Force Recon Training Unit."

http://www.crystalfallstradingcompany.com/barkriver-bravo1.php

[The Tourist]

You have to closely read the copy here. They use the weasel word "assistance."

Does that mean a board of military brass sat down with cutlery specialists and formed an honest joint venture?

Or did some buck-tooth Spc 4 ground-pounder help the UPS driver unload the shipment?

Edit: Abd BTW, if this is such a hot knife, why do I find it in my discount catalog?

[cookie_monster]

You have to closely read the copy here. They use the weasel word "assistance."

Does that mean a board of military brass sat down with cutlery specialists and formed an honest joint venture?

Or did some buck-tooth Spc 4 ground-pounder help the UPS driver unload the shipment?

Edit: Abd BTW, if this is such a hot knife, why do I find it in my discount catalog?

Yup, I understand that enough to be skeptical. Although I think I saw a review on the knife on youtube, but I just haven't seen it being used to it's limits.

[The Tourist]

but I just haven't seen it being used to it's limits.

Here's my honest opinion.

My cost on this knife would be about 135 bucks. It's a stick of steel with a handle bolted to it. And made out of some very mundane steel, at that.

Even if I had a need for a knife like this, I would never pay over 50 bucks for the thing. If memory serves (and with the nice handle) the MSRP is 248 dollars! Clearly I know a cutler who makes a better knife with superior steel for less money.

For the privilege of getting to say the words "special forces" we allow ourselves to pay these prices. I don't really care how the tests come out. This thing is wa-a-a-ay overpriced.

Edit: In checking the inventory again I find that both of the black and green canvas handled exaples are also available at about the same price. They're not scarce.

[Madnumforce]

We all know that all thesse tactical/military/SpecOps trend doesn't mean much. But a well made knife could be worth the price even if it's marketed "Stealthy Death Ultimate Expert Survival Combat Device" and such. They state it's made out of A2, if it's a normal one the price is high, but if it's CPM then the price might be justified. Also heat treat, annealing before cryo quenching + triple cryo tempering is much more expensive than just basic oil quenching and single tempering. But there is nothing to be shocked with when you see the prices of the Striders. THEY are making big bucks on this taktikewl trend. Bark Rivers seems better made: the bevel is really thinner (making of it a knife, not a sharpened prybar), and the grind looks slightly convex, which is a good point and not easy to make, increasing cost feature.

[The Tourist]

????????

You can make a convex edge with a piece of a sandpaper and a mouse pad.

I like Striders, personally. Of course, they don't get points for being pretty, but they offer models which provide options for the jobs and life you live.

My friend in Wyoming does a lot of wilderness camping. For him the AR is the best choice. I'm a 'city boy' who just needs a good folder. I like the SnG. As you can guess, it's polished to a mirror, and very sharp. (Would you like me to take a pic tonight?)

Now, I get good service from other folders in that category. I like my Emerson HD-7. You might not think of a Mikov in this debate, but it's also I good strong folder. I also think the CS Black Sable is in this category--it's just pimped out. Provide it in a matte finish and it will beat a Chinook 'til the cows come home.

If I was hunting, which I stopped, I'd carry a Buck 112 and never look back. And I'm sure that when the CQC-16 comes back from repair it will continue to serve.

Any of these knives mentioned is a better value, a better alloy, takes a sharper edge and will hold it longer than any of these convex hampered A2 posers. No matter how black you spray paint them, or what you call them, or how green their micarta handles are dyed, it's just the same A2 offering in a differing shape.

[cookie_monster]

Here's my honest opinion.

My cost on this knife would be about 135 bucks. It's a stick of steel with a handle bolted to it. And made out of some very mundane steel, at that.

Even if I had a need for a knife like this, I would never pay over 50 bucks for the thing. If memory serves (and with the nice handle) the MSRP is 248 dollars! Clearly I know a cutler who makes a better knife with superior steel for less money.

For the privilege of getting to say the words "special forces" we allow ourselves to pay these prices. I don't really care how the tests come out. This thing is wa-a-a-ay overpriced.

Edit: In checking the inventory again I find that both of the black and green canvas handled exaples are also available at about the same price. They're not scarce.

Ouch. Didn't bother to look at the price yet. Yeah for around $250, I would personally throw in more cash and get a Busse. :D

[Madnumforce]

????????

You can make a convex edge with a piece of a sandpaper and a mouse pad.

I like Striders, personally. Of course, they don't get points for being pretty, but they offer models which provide options for the jobs and life you live.

My friend in Wyoming does a lot of wilderness camping. For him the AR is the best choice. I'm a 'city boy' who just needs a good folder. I like the SnG. As you can guess, it's polished to a mirror, and very sharp. (Would you like me to take a pic tonight?)

Now, I get good service from other folders in that category. I like my Emerson HD-7. You might not think of a Mikov in this debate, but it's also I good strong folder. I also think the CS Black Sable is in this category--it's just pimped out. Provide it in a matte finish and it will beat a Chinook 'til the cows come home.

If I was hunting, which I stopped, I'd carry a Buck 112 and never look back. And I'm sure that when the CQC-16 comes back from repair it will continue to serve.

Any of these knives mentioned is a better value, a better alloy, takes a sharper edge and will hold it longer than any of these convex hampered A2 posers. No matter how black you spray paint them, or what you call them, or how green their micarta handles are dyed, it's just the same A2 offering in a differing shape.

But the fact is that if you consider the BR Bravo1 overpriced, buying Striders is not coherent. Just gimme the steel, and I make you one of their 350-450$ fixed for 50-100$. That's what it's worth, really nothing more. And the mousepad and sandpaper method is not something that can be applied to an industrial or semi-industrial scale. When you look on internet, Bravo1 are often sold around 200$, and that's a very reasonnable price considering the thin convex grind. Bark Rivers look like well made knives. I can't say the same of Striders fixed, the grind is thick and without affection, in fact it's just a wide bevel, and THEY are those who camo-spray their blades and pseudo-japanese paracord wrap their handles. All in all, most Striders fixed should be approximately the price of the Bravo1, cause the steel is more expensive, but there is less work to make a knife.

[The Tourist]

But the fact is that if you consider the BR Bravo1 overpriced, buying Striders is not coherent.

When you eat a meal in a restaurant, you leave a "tip." This amount does not pay for the food, but for the quality of the service.

I don't find a that a strip of mundane steel with a soft HT and a seemingly blunt edge gives me any service, at all. If I have to lug around a fixed a blade, I'll just pick a better one, like a Graham. If an SS3 can survive the wilds of a Tennessee pig hunt, I'll bet it will survive anything I can throw at it!

As for the Strider, I feel the same way. The AR is serving my friend in the Wyoming mountains. I've owned Strider products for almost eight years, if memory serves. My SnG has been sharpened and/or polished only four times.

(In fact, the attention I gave the knife a few days ago was to correct a minor rough spot, so I figured I'd buff the thing for fun. If needed, the work did not need to be done at all.)

I do not know of any military connect Strider claims other than singular reports. I do know that Strider knives are used by firefighters and EMS workers. Several years ago a firefighter lost his Strider putting out a fire. While not required, when Mick heard the story he replaced the knife. So while many companies trumpet their supposed ties to fighting men, I know of a case where Mick put his money where is mouth is.

Truthfully, I find my SnG a tad rough in appearance. Most people unfamiliar with this model comment on the knife being broken--they assume that part of the grip fell off as the obverse side of the handle is metal.

But my desire is for service, that's what I paid for. And in the end I consider a Strider more reliable than a hunk of a railroad track with a obtuse edge.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/001-19.jpg

[kurodrago]

When you eat a meal in a restaurant, you leave a "tip." This amount does not pay for the food, but for the quality of the service.

The tip... is a cultural thing.. tips have more variables that humans living in planet earth.



But my desire is for service, that's what I paid for. And in the end I consider a Strider more reliable than a hunk of a railroad track with a obtuse edge.


I think that everyone wants the BEST & new BEST come out everyday.
The STEEL issue as always is one of the most hyped and misunderstood cutlery aspects.
& Definitively the current market has no balance between quality and price.

[The Tourist]

Definitively the current market has no balance between quality and price.

Oh, I agree. I have my dreams and desires like everyone else.

On paper a GoldWing might be better than a Harley. I've had two GoldWings. I thought they were pretty vanilla, and the second one scattered its engine at 1,400 miles. The armature flew apart and took the entire back end of the motor with it. So much for reliability. I've actually paid more for repairs on Hondas than on my Harleys. As always, beware of the hype.

I'd rather have a Graham than the best Bark River made. I'd never leave my wife for any of the three "Jessicas." As for folders, I like the Emersons and Striders.

If you have something for me to try out, by all means I'll take a look--that's how I found the Graham Brothers.

But I've worked hard for all of my life. I'm not going to pinch aa few pennies and carry a crappy knife I hate every time a UPS box shows up.

There's an old saying that, "I'd rather push my Harley than ride a Honda."

Well, I'd rather tear open a UPS box with my teeth than use an over priced hunk of a railroad track. I have a right to enjoy the products of my own choosing.

[Madnumforce]

In fact, A2 isn't precisely railroad track steel. And at least, Bark River do the effort to put scales on their knives, unlike Strider on most of their fixed. Bark Rivers may be a bit over priced, but no more than 30%. Striders are more than 80% over priced. And Bark River gives clear informations on their knives, while even on the official Strider shop, they don't bother to mention even lenght or steel! You may discuss about Bark River knives quality, but don't say it's overpriced while you buy a cord-wrapped bevelled blank from Strider for twice the price. As knifemaker, I can tell you that the BR Bravo1 is harder to make and need more work than, for exemple, a Strider MT-L. And, you know, steel is only a fraction of the price of a knive, around it you've milling/cutting, grinding, finishing/coating, handle, sheath, packaging, shipping costs, but also electric bills, rent, insurance, wages if you're employing peoples, taxes, etc... All of this makes that you could swap from a classical to a CPM steel without much final price increase. I dare to say that Striders fixed cost certainly less to produce than a Bravo1, and that if BR are overpriced, Striders are way too overpriced. Damn, man, it's not a "tip", it's a robbery!

[The Tourist]

I'm not telling you what to buy, I'm telling you what I want to buy.

In my life, a Bark River knife does nothing. If I need a knife like that--and sometimes I do--I carry my Graham Brothers SS3. It's better in every way.

As for a cost analysis, any money I would spend on a Barkie would simply be a waste. It's not what I want, it doesn't perform like I want, and I'd have to waste a lot of time scraping the existing edge off to polish it.

The SS3 came out of the box ready to use, and it even had a better sheath. In fact, utilizing the chisel front edge, the SS3 and Stubby do things that a Barkie cannot. In fact, I have used them for that exact function.

As for a Strider, I also own an Emerson HD-7. I have the money (I get most wholesale), I like the designs, and I have no qualms about customer serivce.

So tell me now, just what would a Bark River do for me?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/DSC00231.jpg

[Madnumforce]

It's just you can't say it's overpriced while you say Amen to Striders. That's my only point.

[CJK02]

And back to the question everyone has been waiting on.... when will the test be completed and posted?

[The Tourist]

It's just you can't say it's overpriced while you say Amen to Striders. That's my only point.

Over priced to whom, exactly? I sell knives costing close to 3,000 dollars. A Strider is only 500 bucks. I'll bet that some members here have watches that cost that much.

For the record, I also use Opinels. My favorite outdoor-style knife is a 30 dollar Buck 112.

[CJK02]

Tourist you can take a tour to a different forum

[culpeper]

Knock it off or we might close this thread until personnel are back from abroad and the test is complete. Y'all be cool.

[Riverdweller]

I see alot of bad mouthing the Bark Rivers. How many folks on here that are bad mouthing them have ever used one? Yes they are a little over priced, but the are a heck of a knife. For about $160 you can get the canvas models. Once you start adding fancier handles the price increase.I'm wanting to see Noss do his destruction test. I've been using my Bravo1 for almost 2 years but not to the extent that I know Noss will put it through. Ok I'm ready to be flammed since I'm the new guy.:D

[culpeper]

Okay, have it your way. You don't listen, dude. I'm closing this thread and the admin can reopen it at his own discretion.

[dingyu1980]

the doomsday of Bark River Bravo One is near , NOSS right:rockon: ?

[Noss]

I didn't read the entire last few pages but I'll go ahead and re open this thread for now. Keep it cool everyone.

culpeper, Thanks man. :thumb:

[Noss]

The test is coming everyone. Have some Patience okay.

[cookie_monster]

In case everything on the 2 pages of your tests aren't everything, is this gonna be the first Bark River you're gonna test?

[Noss]

In case everything on the 2 pages of your tests aren't everything, is this gonna be the first Bark River you're gonna test?

No, I D-tested the Boone II already. It did very well.

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1163

[The Tourist]

Noss, I am so glad that you do these tests. Someone has to for the 'big picture.'

I've tried to watched the 'Proof' DVDs provided by CS. I blanche at their testers ramming a polished blade into the teeth of a vice, or bending a blade over 90 degrees to see if it snaps.

They must be feeling some heat or guilt. The last one I got stated that the sides of beef they slashed up were donated to charity.

It's not just knives. It's also painful to watch the crash tests for Lamborghini!:(

[culpeper]

Yeah, the boone II did very well. I would take one of those over an over priced Randall any day.

[The Tourist]

I think this is one of those "cost vs. benefit" debates that has no right answer. For example, if I needed a chisel (for any reason) I would buy a Sears Craftsman, despite the fact I rep for a company that sells a Japanese brand.

The reason? Well, a Craftsman example sells from ten to twenty dollars, however a singular Japanese variety costs from 100 to 1,000 dollars each. (That company caters to precision woodworkers, and I would bet most buyers are professional cabinet makers.)

Chances are I'm going to beat on that chisel--for my needs--with a big ol' mallet.

To the other extreme, I enjoy the Buck 112. But I also enjoy folders costing +600 dollars. Routinely I saw some hunters come into Gander Mountain to buy the best Weatherby they could afford and top it with a Leupold. As the guy was paying for the rifle in cash he would seriously ask me if I knew of a good nine dollar knife. The cost to him meant nothing, but he saw no benefit in paying more than chump-change for a knife.

Lately I did this same exact thing. I needed a work vehicle to save gas and meet tax deduction parameters. I actually looked at one of those larger scooters that while looking like an overgrown Vespa could actually do slab speeds. I liked the big storage room under the seat.

However, upon finding out that I could get a Sportster for a minor amount more--utilizing my same dealership and my same mechanic--I spent the extra amount happily.

I saw a "benefit" you might not appreciate. And the same thought process applies here. I see no benefit in a BRK, in fact, I see a lot of detriments--for my personal use and cost. The knife I use for that very need is a 450 dollar Graham Brothers SS3. I pondered the attributes of my position as to cost vs. benefit. I bought the Graham.

Culpeper, you did the same thing. You simply chose a different knife, as you should have. But in this debate it is the old "Ford vs. Chevy" argument. No winner is ever crowned, just personal choices discussed.

[Madnumforce]

Your choices are one thing, but they don't erase the facts. Noss is testing facts. It's also a fact when I tell you that Striders or ESEE are more overpriced than BR (or BRK). You're free to do your choices as you want, to spend your money on what you're prefering, but don't make it look like if your choice is only the result of good reasons. You have no use for BR? I don't have neither, nor for Strider or anything. I'm just considering what is precisely independant of individuals choices, tastes and preferences.

But considering Graham knives, it's different: they are hand made, and you have not a society, but ONE person standing behind his products, and living of it. It's not just a sell-buy transaction, it's a relation of trust. And the price is also different, but you know why: each operation is made by hand, eye and brain of the craftman, takes time and attention. It's not just putting a bunch of blanks in a machine and pushing on a button. I will never compare in price a handmade knive and an industrial one. But they can be compared in quality.

[The Tourist]

Noss is testing facts.

I understand that. However, the actual sale is made when the client alone decides on how these facts play out in his life.

Here's the personal take in my life. I know all of the facts and boasts about BRK. I'm what's known as a 'slicer.' I do not hack, chop or pry with a knife made for cutting and slicing. A convex edge is useless to me. Hence any money at all--even a "buck three eighty" in our slang--is just money tossed right down the rat-hole.

If I am going to spend my money, it's going to be for something I like, something that enhances my life and something that I enjoy using.

I don't care if Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Chuck Norris all wet themselves in abject fear over the latest BRK, if I can't find anything it does in my life, it has absolutely no value.

Frankly, I've learned that peer pressure is often wrong. Even a test relates to qualities, alloys, parameters and influences of that time period. I'm a guy who rides a bike designed in 1936. I do so because that design enhances my life. Yeah, I've seen the new V-Max, I even like it. I don't think I can live with it, hence the purchase is a waste.

If you want me to buy a Barkie, you'll have to demonstrate how a blunt, soft, obtuse edge does something special I cannot do now.

[Riverdweller]

Test yet??????

[Noss]

I'll do my best to get it done after the first. My camera man is out of the country on a job so I'll have to solo it again.

[culpeper]

Ah hell, wait till he gets back. I miss that ugly bastard's sense of humor when you smash your hand or something.

[Noss]

He will laugh at that comment. :D

[kurodrago]

Ah hell, wait till he gets back. I miss that ugly bastard's sense of humor when you smash your hand or something.

Ditto:D:D:D:thumb:

[built to last]

Ah hell, wait till he gets back. I miss that ugly bastard's sense of humor when you smash your hand or something.

Let me just say that after about 3 drinks and 3 beers, I almost shit myself laughing at this statement. Very good. I also miss some of his statements; he was a funny guy.

[Noss]

He will be happy to hear he is missed.

[Marvin8]

I have had a lot of requests for this knife. So it's finally going to happen thanks to JonSidneyB. :rockon: Thanks man.

So post your predictions if you have any. :thumb:

Knife specs:

Specs:
Blade Steel: A-2
RC: 59
Overall Length: 9"
Blade Length: 4.250"
Blade Thickness: .215"
Weight: 7 Ounces

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=662&d=1263361989

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=663&d=1263362003

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=664&d=1263362026

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=665&d=1263362034

MY PREDICTION is that this test will never occur and/or will never be posted. :D

[CJK02]

No kidding....time to lock the thread down...I keep teasing myself by visiting it over and over again...

[Madnumforce]

It may never occur if Noss never find the time to do it, and this is possible, but if he do the D-test of the Bravo-1, I have absolutely no doubt it will be posted. Why should it be elseway? Are you accusing Noss to have biased opinions? To favor some brands over other in his tests? To hide information? That it completly silly! Noss is against all kind of such brand chauvinism.

But just realise you don't pay him, he don't owe you any test in a defined schedule. When he finds time and energy, he do a test. You could possibly be a bit annoyed if you had sent a knife to be tested, and it doesn't happens (though Noss proposed to ship back his knife to anyone asking), but it seems it isn't your case, CJK02 and Marvin8. So don't come complain like these whiners who come snivel and niggle at the french social services agencies, and do as if the whole world had duties to them while they don't pay a cent of tax in years, and have almost everything already paid. Noss don't owe anyone anything, it's called: "being independant", and that's what makes his tests reliable and impartial.

[CJK02]

If you re-read my post, all I pointed out is that I have become impatient after 6 months of waiting.

The last post Noss made on the completion date of this test he mentioned by July 1. He hosts the site so he can share his tests, and I follow them. If tests are not going to be completed, should we not be informed?

[Madnumforce]

Noss does his tests on his spare time, and so does he comes on this forum. The fact he's not giving any update shows that he's busy, and from this you can guess that tests are not to be proceeded soon. Noss never did a "behind the scene" things, but I guess it really takes time to do and post a test: first the test itself, then all the editing job, to cut in 10min bits the raw footage, and maybe change the format, frame size, compression rate, etc, so it fits on Youtube, then uploading on Youtube one by one, write the description sheet of the test, and post it all here on the forum and on www.knifetests.com. It sure takes hours of time, and lot of energy. It seems Noss has to work rather hard these times, and maybe when he come back from work, he's so tired he don't even want to think there are knives waiting to be tested in a drawer. Already, no one did for free what he has done until now, we can't ask for more, we are those who owe him to have sacrified time, money and energy to test all these knives.

[Noss]

People complain when I test them and when I don't test them. Funny :D


Thanks Madnum. :thumb:

[jankerson]

People complain when I test them and when I don't test them. Funny :D


Thanks Madnum. :thumb:

I am patient because I know it will be worth it once you are done. :thumb:

[dingyu1980]

It may never occur if Noss never find the time to do it, and this is possible, but if he do the D-test of the Bravo-1, I have absolutely no doubt it will be posted. Why should it be elseway? Are you accusing Noss to have biased opinions? To favor some brands over other in his tests? To hide information? That it completly silly! Noss is against all kind of such brand chauvinism.

But just realise you don't pay him, he don't owe you any test in a defined schedule. When he finds time and energy, he do a test. You could possibly be a bit annoyed if you had sent a knife to be tested, and it doesn't happens (though Noss proposed to ship back his knife to anyone asking), but it seems it isn't your case, CJK02 and Marvin8. So don't come complain like these whiners who come snivel and niggle at the french social services agencies, and do as if the whole world had duties to them while they don't pay a cent of tax in years, and have almost everything already paid. Noss don't owe anyone anything, it's called: "being independant", and that's what makes his tests reliable and impartial.

man, you said it right , i am with you .
noss is a good man, :D
he did great , those tests cost so much , time and money,do not complain him for delay.

[kurodrago]

Do me a favor, don't test this knife no more:p:D go for the next one:thumb:

[dingyu1980]

big sword , you know that. KATANA

[Noss]

Thanks for the support men. The test is going to happen. I'm just trying to find time to breathe first.

[dingyu1980]

man, no need to hurry, take it esay .
job and earning money are very important ,man .
you did soooo much to us , thanks

[Noss]

I'm truly sorry to keep you waiting on the sword this long but I will get it done. Thanks bro. :thumb:

[chiral.grolim]

Greetings. I'm a newbie, joined the forum just today, though I've been watching the videos and perusing various topics for awhile now. I'd been watching this thread in particular.
I bought a used Bravo1 after watching Bluntruth4U's videos. I haven't used it much yet as the Cattaruagus 225Q I inherited is my current goto knife for hard use. The Bravo1 seems to have garnered a significant level of chatter mostly due to its dubiously-hyped background and the purveyor's questionable character... I generally ignore any hype/BS? around a knife, just check online for unbiased verifiable use-tests. Other than the evidently useless thumb-ramp, users seem to like it. But is it a use-equivalent purchase to an SAR5?

Sooo, since it's been a month since anyone posted to this thread, may I poke to see if Noss' situation has improved enough to where he might have the chance to put one through the paces... Any updates?

Thanks again for this service you provide, Noss, and your patience regarding the flack you get from others.

I would like to second another forumite's suggestion: can you throw the smaller (<12") hard-use knives at stuff - wood, tree, concrete wall, etc.? Or do you think that the tip & butt hammer-tests are fairly representative or encompass what effects such use might have?

Thanks again. Really looking forward to this D-test!

[Noss]

chiral.grolim, Welcome to the forum. :thumb:

It's at the top of my to do list. I'm taking a few days off here soon so I can get some things done.

Thanks