Question about the Reeve knives

[dl351]

Ok, I've just got a simple question for Noss about the Reeve knives. Do you have any close up pictures of the blades where they broke? Please don't tear my post apart for this, but I'm an engineering student and this kind of stuff interests me. Oh, and I've read/participated in enough of the Reeve threads on BF, so I don't really care to get into much more than looking at any possible pictures here. Thanks.

[Noss]

I found these two on the Project. Still looking for the GB photos. I'm sure I have some. I no longer have the remains of either knife so I can't take any new ones. So these are the best I have. I'll update this if I find some more. My computer is a little crowded with photos and videos of the tests so bear with me here.

[Noss]

Found the GB photos. The best I have. I haven't found any more project photos but if I do I'll update. The second break from the handle is where the knife failed the test and is the one your interested in I suspect.

[xxo]

Noss, do you have any of the faces of the breaks head on?

....I think that is what dl351 may be looking for.

[Noss]

No..These are all I have that show the breaks.

[dingyu1980]

both of CRK dead without Dignity！
not tough , not strong .

[dl351]

Thanks for the pictures. I find it very interesting that even though the blades are two different steels, the break from the hammer appears very similar. I know you've heard this before, but I'd be interested to see how a non-serrated version performs.

[dingyu1980]

man, there are solid proofs here , the serration is not a excuse for easily breaking .
the sog seal 2000 do have serrations , but not fragile like CRK's .
tests are time and money consuming , right ?
the CRK is on the Cross , the small serrations can make big differences ?

dingy

[Noss]

Thanks for the pictures. I find it very interesting that even though the blades are two different steels, the break from the hammer appears very similar. I know you've heard this before, but I'd be interested to see how a non-serrated version performs.



No problem. The hammer hit was a few inches up from the breaks on both knives. Both knives separated at the break locations. They didn't break were they were being hit by the hammer. The tip portion of the knife was not being held so the energy was dissipating through the tip. The handle was being held by my hand and the energy had less room to bleed out. A weak point was found and the knives separated. I think this is why both breaks look very similar.

I would like to retest them without serrations to see if there is any difference. Hopefully sometime down the road I can. As dingyu1980 pointed out other knives with serrations have been tested as well as knives with saws. None broke like the Reeve knives during the hammer/wood test. In fact it's a rare occurrence for any knife to fail this portion of the test. The CRK's are the only ones that have problems handling it. It could be the serrations are playing a role here but I need to test some more to be certain of this. So yes a test of the project without serrations would be interesting. I don't think the GB is offered without serrations so the project is the only candidate.

[dl351]

Thanks for the info. I do realize that other knives have serrations and did better. One thing I've noticed in pictures (as I don't own a Project 1, but only a Shadow IV) is that Chris Reeve seems to put an edge bevel on the "back" of the serrations. The only knives I own with serrations have "chisel ground" serrations. Since the scallops of the serrations make the blade thinner at those points, it seems to me that "chisel ground" serrations might be stronger than how Chris Reeve sharpens them. Here're some pictures that might help make sense of what I'm saying:

http://www.onlyfineknives.com/knife.php?k=248841

Since the blade has edge bevels on both sides, including both sides of the serrations, the scallops of the serrations are easily the thinnest (and weakest) parts of the blade. On top of that, the shape of serrations also act as stress concentrators. To me, it seems that stress concentrating at the thinnest part of the blade might contribute to the failure. Other knives, I think, benefit from the back of the serrations not being sharpened. I understand that other factors could play a role in the breakage, I'm just trying to understand why it happened though.

To be up front, as mentioned, I do own a Shadow IV (which was purchased after all the hoo hah from the breakage) and I think it's a nice knife. It's thinner than the Project and as a result, not designed for particularly heavy or abusive tasks. Basically I'm saying I like my Chris Reeve knife. With that, I'd like to make clear that I came to this forum to get some information about these knives, not to debate what happened. So far, so good. I just want to make sure this doesn't degrade into a debate.

Thanks again for the pics and info, Noss.

Good heavens, don't you sleep? It's nearly 1am here in California and you're in Texas!

[Noss]

No problem.

I'm a night Owl of the highest order. :D

This isn't blade forums so most here can talk about this stuff without it turning into a flame war.

Interesting point about the serrations. I don't think the other blades with serrations tested were ground on both sides like the Reeves. I need to go back and check this.

Here is another interesting photo. (not mine) this was re posted on BF. It was originally posted on a polish forum if I recall correctly. The story was the CRK project broke chopping wood(posted on BF) . I was never able to translate the forum so I couldn't read it but I did save the photo. The link was posted in the BF general knife discussion forum. I don't have the link and I can no longer search since my membership expired.

Here is the photo. It's a little hard to tell but it looks like it broke in the middle of the serration also.

[Madnumforce]

Thanks for the info. I do realize that other knives have serrations and did better. One thing I've noticed in pictures (as I don't own a Project 1, but only a Shadow IV) is that Chris Reeve seems to put an edge bevel on the "back" of the serrations. The only knives I own with serrations have "chisel ground" serrations. Since the scallops of the serrations make the blade thinner at those points, it seems to me that "chisel ground" serrations might be stronger than how Chris Reeve sharpens them. Here're some pictures that might help make sense of what I'm saying:

http://www.onlyfineknives.com/knife.php?k=248841

Since the blade has edge bevels on both sides, including both sides of the serrations, the scallops of the serrations are easily the thinnest (and weakest) parts of the blade. On top of that, the shape of serrations also act as stress concentrators. To me, it seems that stress concentrating at the thinnest part of the blade might contribute to the failure. Other knives, I think, benefit from the back of the serrations not being sharpened. I understand that other factors could play a role in the breakage, I'm just trying to understand why it happened though.

To be up front, as mentioned, I do own a Shadow IV (which was purchased after all the hoo hah from the breakage) and I think it's a nice knife. It's thinner than the Project and as a result, not designed for particularly heavy or abusive tasks. Basically I'm saying I like my Chris Reeve knife. With that, I'd like to make clear that I came to this forum to get some information about these knives, not to debate what happened. So far, so good. I just want to make sure this doesn't degrade into a debate.

Thanks again for the pics and info, Noss.

Good heavens, don't you sleep? It's nearly 1am here in California and you're in Texas!


In fact, "sharpening" the back of the serrations make them stronger, as it reduce the angle. I made a little drawing to prove this:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3711/serrations2.jpg

The CRK perform poorly in the D-test because they are clearly poorly heat-treated. This kind of break is called: "breaking like glass", and means not enough tempering, at least not for hard use. This is a pocket, folder knife heat-treatment that had been applied to these blades, not a heavy duty, outdoor, camp knife one. A blade like this better be somewhat springy and with relatively low edge retention, than super hard, hyper edge retention, cosmic hype, but as tough as a Ming vase. It could be a problem with the steel fibers, as the one-piece serie is machined out of a less laminated steel than regular other blades, but it doesn't work as the Green Beret also broke like glass. It means the problement is really with the HT, and while Jerry Busse increase steel performances at a level I never imagined possible of, Chris Reeve lower it by neglecting the most basics tests and parameters, making his fixed knives (at least the GB and the Projetc, I'm not talking about the Sebenza, which with the same HT, might be an excellent folder), advertised for heavy use, a collector stock market value and an ecomonomic bubble of cuttlery hype.

Don't take it personnal, I have nothing against you and I'm not judging you, all the blame is (was? I hope he learned from these mistakes and misconceptions Noss has shown) on Chris Reeve. I don't use most of my knives, not even for light use, but if I ever needed to put all my faith in one only camp blade, I don't want to be cheated by some merchandising propaganda and fanboy's lies, and that's all what Noss is about: to reveal what is and not what's generally though about quality and toughness. CRK are not unworthy of any respect, but they sure don't deserve to be called "hard use knives", while they still are good looking, good exchange and show pieces, and certainly good cutters.

[dingyu1980]

CRK has lots of fans here ,China .
when i mentioned the D-tests to them , they yalled at me.:D:D:D

[Noss]

Nice drawling Madnum. :thumb: Thanks for that.

It doesn't appear that serrations or a saw alone are going to turn a knife into a fragile piece of glass. I just haven't seen any evidence for this to be the case. Most serrated and saw spine blades have held their own in the d-tests. If this was the golden rule then they should all be breaking and failing the dreaded hammer and this just isn't happening.


dingyu1980: Yeah the d-tests are not a popular topic around the CRK campfire. ;)

[xxo]

The made in USA blade stamp could also be a stress riser, during WWII they found that the blade stamps on the M3 trench knives were causing blades to break, so they moved the stamp to the cross guard.

Could also be a steel/HT problem but the grain does not look too bad (at least what is visible in the pic) on that one....a good close up of the face of the breaks and a hardness test would tell more.

[Madnumforce]

The made in USA blade stamp could also be a stress riser, during WWII they found that the blade stamps on the M3 trench knives were causing blades to break, so they moved the stamp to the cross guard.

Could also be a steel/HT problem but the grain does not look too bad (at least what is visible in the pic) on that one....a good close up of the face of the breaks and a hardness test would tell more.

It is an interesting theory, but the stamp seems too "delicate" to really make any critical stress in the case of the CRK. War production is not at all the same: mass production needs fast and efficient methods and cheap materials, and I wouldn't be surprised at all M3 trench knives were stamped with a press set for more than one millimeter stamp penetration. To me, there is without the smallest doubt a huge underlying heat treatment problem. There may be other causes that make it worst, but I don't imagine any having such an important effect to be the main cause itself.

[dl351]

Thanks for the drawing Madnumforce. I get what you're saying, but with the one piece, I don't think they have a brittle folder heat treat. They're actually a bit soft compared to modern high end folder steels. Good comments though.

Oh, Noss, that's another interesting picture you posted. I can't help but think that the serrations play a role with what's going on with these blades. The only (now three) Reeve knives I've seen broken online all started in the middle of a serration. I wonder if it's possible that when the serrations get ground, too much heat builds up and makes a weaker spot there. Just a thought.

Yeah, and the tests are definitely not popular on the CRK forum. I myself am not a huge fan of the tests, but I do find some of them interesting. I think conflict comes from interpretation of results by different people. Also, people on both sides of the "debate" seem to twist what others say. I feel this happened to me multiple times over on BF, which is why I don't care to get into discussing whether or not Chris Reeve knives are good. As mentioned earlier, I have a Shadow IV (no serrations on that model!) and I like it. If you don't like Reeve's fixed blades, fine. That's as far as I care to discuss how "good" the knives are. I like to keep any discussion to information exchange. On that note, I'm more interested now to see how a non-serrated one piece would perform because 3 out of 3 breaks I've seen all started in the middle of a serration. Come on Noss! You want to get to the bottom of this, right? Don't you want to drop $350 on a non-serrated to test while they're still available? (sarcasm intended in that last line)

[Madnumforce]

Thanks for the drawing Madnumforce. I get what you're saying, but with the one piece, I don't think they have a brittle folder heat treat. They're actually a bit soft compared to modern high end folder steels. Good comments though.

Oh, Noss, that's another interesting picture you posted. I can't help but think that the serrations play a role with what's going on with these blades. The only (now three) Reeve knives I've seen broken online all started in the middle of a serration. I wonder if it's possible that when the serrations get ground, too much heat builds up and makes a weaker spot there. Just a thought.

Yeah, and the tests are definitely not popular on the CRK forum. I myself am not a huge fan of the tests, but I do find some of them interesting. I think conflict comes from interpretation of results by different people. Also, people on both sides of the "debate" seem to twist what others say. I feel this happened to me multiple times over on BF, which is why I don't care to get into discussing whether or not Chris Reeve knives are good. As mentioned earlier, I have a Shadow IV (no serrations on that model!) and I like it. If you don't like Reeve's fixed blades, fine. That's as far as I care to discuss how "good" the knives are. I like to keep any discussion to information exchange. On that note, I'm more interested now to see how a non-serrated one piece would perform because 3 out of 3 breaks I've seen all started in the middle of a serration. Come on Noss! You want to get to the bottom of this, right? Don't you want to drop $350 on a non-serrated to test while they're still available? (sarcasm intended in that last line)

No straight edge CRK have been tested it's true, but the fact is that the Chris Reeve Project 1 and Green Beret Noss tested were brittle. This is not an interpretation but a fact. Maybe it comes from the steel, maybe from the HT, maybe from the serrations, maybe from the stamp, or maybe Noss has been temporarly given herculean strength and his faithfull steel mallet changed into Thor's Mjölnir, or maybe it was a crack in the timespace continuum, or maybe it was an intervention in mind of the Great Old Ones, or maybe it's God himself, or his angels. But they did break while hammered in wood, and if we keep technical, logical, and scientific, that's what we can call a poor performance, whatever the reason. Maybe they are to be used relatively gently and with care, which suits a collector use, but for the price, knives lot much tougher can be bought you can really rely on in any circumstance.

I've seen on the Chris Reeve site the hardness level he claims his blades have, and just can't believe it. As if a perfect 2 feet long piece of 4X4, without the smallest knot, could break under the weight of a three years old child. There is just something that don't match. I just can't admit serrations are the cause of the breaking of a 300$+, .220" S30V or .225" A2 blade , 55-57HRC. I mean, it would mean not having the smallest knowledge in metalurgy and not doing any serious, hard use test. When you miss heat-treat, you miss the quenching, the result is a softer, tougher steel, you can't miss the tempering, which is the only way to let a blade brittle. And if the serrations are the cause, they have to be removed or the manufacturing protocol changed.

There is not seven ways to grind the serrations: before or after the HT. Before, it can lead to a modification of the grain size, which only solution is a carefull, deep annealing. After, it can lead to enough heating to temper the steel, which soften it more than needed, but may also induce stress in the steel because of the different sizes of the crystal structure. The solution is then to grind most of the serrations before heat treat and follow above mentionned protocol. Just a small touch on the grinding stone in the end, or even with a kind of brush, to give it correct surface and sharpness and it's ok. Anyway, if the serrations are the cause, it is just unacceptable products with such failures are sold.

[Noss]

Here is the crucible A2 impact toughness data chart.

[Noss]

I'm not sure what CRK does to test their knives. When I was contacted by them about the GB they said they were surprised it failed based on their testing. I was hoping to hear more about this but I didn't. When they released their statement on blade forums there was no mention of the type of tests they put them through.

The only maker I know for sure that tests their knives to the max is Busse since I've talked to Jerry about this. Because of this he knows his product well. I'm sure there are others that do d-testing as well. It can be surprising who does and doesn't test their knives hard. I was very surprised that Justin of Ranger knives only tests them so far doing some basic tests like chopping wood (he stated this on his forum when asked what type of tests he did) but nowhere to the level Jerry takes his. Justin was in the dark concerning the full capabilities of his own knives and he was mad as hell at me for it but he just didn't know because he never pushed his knives to the max. Unless he was just pretending he had never seen his knives d-tested except here on this site.

Back to the CRK's If the serrations are the cause then like madnum said they should be removed from the product or avoided when the buyer chooses a model. As the saying goes. "buyer Beware"

Also this site is not anti Chris Reeve regardless of what the CRK conspiracy fans say. The knives faced what all others face and they keep coming up short. This is as far as it goes.

[kurodrago]

When they released their statement on blade forums,
very good liars and heavily try to cover their asss.

I recall.....
"Green Beret " The knife was heat-treated ok had no problems.
Should the knife be hit repeatedly with a hammer NO!

They justified the behave easy breakage by blame the hammer!
They miss all the point knifetest.....

That is History.

[dingyu1980]

The made in USA blade stamp could also be a stress riser, during WWII they found that the blade stamps on the M3 trench knives were causing blades to break, so they moved the stamp to the cross guard.

Could also be a steel/HT problem but the grain does not look too bad (at least what is visible in the pic) on that one....a good close up of the face of the breaks and a hardness test would tell more.

man, this is the most interesting i have heard .
haha , i can not believe .:D

[dingyu1980]

Thanks for the drawing Madnumforce. I get what you're saying, but with the one piece, I don't think they have a brittle folder heat treat. They're actually a bit soft compared to modern high end folder steels. Good comments though.

Oh, Noss, that's another interesting picture you posted. I can't help but think that the serrations play a role with what's going on with these blades. The only (now three) Reeve knives I've seen broken online all started in the middle of a serration. I wonder if it's possible that when the serrations get ground, too much heat builds up and makes a weaker spot there. Just a thought.

Yeah, and the tests are definitely not popular on the CRK forum. I myself am not a huge fan of the tests, but I do find some of them interesting. I think conflict comes from interpretation of results by different people. Also, people on both sides of the "debate" seem to twist what others say. I feel this happened to me multiple times over on BF, which is why I don't care to get into discussing whether or not Chris Reeve knives are good. As mentioned earlier, I have a Shadow IV (no serrations on that model!) and I like it. If you don't like Reeve's fixed blades, fine. That's as far as I care to discuss how "good" the knives are. I like to keep any discussion to information exchange. On that note, I'm more interested now to see how a non-serrated one piece would perform because 3 out of 3 breaks I've seen all started in the middle of a serration. Come on Noss! You want to get to the bottom of this, right? Don't you want to drop $350 on a non-serrated to test while they're still available? (sarcasm intended in that last line)


noss did lots to us , thank you noss!:rockon:

if you are interested in the non-s version , you can donate one to him.

thanks
dingy

[dingyu1980]

When they released their statement on blade forums,
very good liars and heavily try to cover their asss.

I recall.....
"Green Beret " The knife was heat-treated ok had no problems.
Should the knife be hit repeatedly with a hammer NO!

They justified the behave easy breakage by blame the hammer!
They miss all the point knifetest.....

That is History.

i have read some in the CRK sub-forum , some related bad guys insulted NOSS with personal abuise like " a moron in mask " .

what they did make me sick.:thumbdwn:


but i do not angry with this , let us think about it : we beloved noss broked the bowl that they feed on family , what do you expected to them ?

when i read the post in crk-subforum , i just want reply " hey , balls(boss) do not make fix baldes and labled with "rough use" , do what you are good at --- folders.
but i dare not to say it , i am fear of getting ban from BF.

[Noss]

No problem dingyu1980. Thanks.


If people are so worried about CRK's not standing up to hard use. They should buy another knife. This is what I would do. To stay with a knife because of some fan loyalty is pretty lame. It's really up to the end user to test his/her gear out. Ive bought some firearms from makers I like that came up short in the accuracy and reliability departments so I sold them and went looking somewhere else. Same goes for knives.

[kurodrago]

No problem dingyu1980. Thanks.


If people are so worried about CRK's not standing up to hard use. They should buy another knife. This is what I would do. To stay with a knife because of some fan loyalty is pretty lame. It's really up to the end user to test his/her gear out. Ive bought some firearms from makers I like that came up short in the accuracy and reliability departments so I sold them and went looking somewhere else. Same goes for knives.

Amen!!!:thumb:

[dingyu1980]

as i remembered , Cliff Stamp post a pic of broken CRK knife .
but can not open the site , what a pity.

[Noss]

as i remembered , Cliff Stamp post a pic of broken CRK knife .
but can not open the site , what a pity.

Yes he did. I don't know how many need to break before people understand this about these knives.:confused: There are just much better hard use knife choices for less money out there.

[Noss]

I really tired of talking about these knives. So people can accept this or ignore this buy then or not buy them. I'm done with this subject for now. Please feel free to continue the discussion here amoung yourselves if you wish. I just don't have anything else to say.

[Madnumforce]

I really tired of talking about these knives. So people can accept this or ignore this buy then or not buy them. I'm done with this subject for now. Please feel free to continue the discussion here amoung yourselves if you wish. I just don't have anything else to say.
And in fact, your test tells everything there is to know.

Don't let morrons take you down boss.

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[dingyu1980]

And in fact, your test tells everything there is to know.

Don't let morrons take you down boss.

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man, i can not open the youtube vids , please tell me , is it another breakage of CRK?
:D:D:D

[dl351]

Well, thanks for the pictures, Noss. That's what I came here for. I'm glad that this thread didn't turn into one of those never ending debates like on BF. I know people will have their differing opinions, and that's fine. I probably have a different opinion that most here about Chris Reeve one-piece knives, but thanks to all for not attacking me for that. I appreciate the info you provided, Noss.

On an interesting note, there's a new hunter style knife that CRK is due to release this year that's made of S35V steel. Should be interesting. Does anyone here know anything about that steel?

[Madnumforce]

man, i can not open the youtube vids , please tell me , is it another breakage of CRK?
:D:D:D

Nooo! A rock song, from Billy Idol: Rebel Yell.

[Noss]

dl351: No problem. Glad I could provide you with the photos.



Madnumforce: Man I haven't heard Billy Idol in like 20 years. Thanks I needed that. :thumb: :D


dingyu1980: He was/is a crazy punk rocker from the 80's that went mainstream. He cheated death about once every week with his lifestyle

http://www.trexle.net/img/posters/264/RS440.jpg

[dingyu1980]

thank both of you , men.
punk rock , it is not my type.

it is funny that CRK made new knife in S35V .
DO you wanta test it ?

please show a little bite mercy on that poor boy . :D

[dl351]

So I watched the end of the Schrade Extreme Survival destruction videos, and it looks like that knife also broke in the middle of the serration. I'm thinking that the hollow grind combined with the serration scallops make for a weaker point on the blade.

Noss, if you're still reading this thread, do you have any pictures of the Schrade at the break? Thanks again.

[Madnumforce]

It broke not only in the middle a serration, but also at the ricasso, i.e.: where all the sress accumulates. The difference of section between the rectangle section part and the ground blade makes a weaker area where the stress can't propagate homogeneoulsy and continually, and can induce some smal differences when quenching. This added to the lack of the matter took away from the blade to form the serration, and you have the breaking point. The CRK Green Beret broke approximately in the same place, and the resaon might be the same, but the Project I broke some milimeters further, where blade section is continuous (serrations excepted).

By the way, these are technical considerations, but the thing we, as knives users, carry about is that the CRK broke when hammered in wood, while Schrade Extreme Survival hold up in this test, hold up againt concrete chopping, and only broke when hammered in concrete, after one hour of testing. This is not an excellent performance, but it's a clear sign of a much better toughness than the CRK.

[Noss]

dl351: I can't find a better photo. I guess I didn't take one of the break.
So I extracted it from the video. I no longer have the remains of the schrade.

Yes it is broken in the middle of a serration. The serrations are cut a little different on this knife.

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=685&d=1264070466

[dingyu1980]

It broke not only in the middle a serration, but also at the ricasso, i.e.: where all the sress accumulates. The difference of section between the rectangle section part and the ground blade makes a weaker area where the stress can't propagate homogeneoulsy and continually, and can induce some smal differences when quenching. This added to the lack of the matter took away from the blade to form the serration, and you have the breaking point. The CRK Green Beret broke approximately in the same place, and the resaon might be the same, but the Project I broke some milimeters further, where blade section is continuous (serrations excepted).

By the way, these are technical considerations, but the thing we, as knives users, carry about is that the CRK broke when hammered in wood, while Schrade Extreme Survival hold up in this test, hold up againt concrete chopping, and only broke when hammered in concrete, after one hour of testing. This is not an excellent performance, but it's a clear sign of a much better toughness than the CRK.

ya , every one knows that the serration part is a weak point !
but this is not an excuse for the breaking !
there are some with serrations that won't break with a same procedure .
if the crk without serration and not hollow grined , can you believe it will get 4 or more swords ?

there is no complicated Mathematics and physics reasoning here ! just hammering and turth !

the objective here is not steel or design , just knife ! i gusse , so if the serrations make CRK weak , this is the fault of CR ! not hammer or someone in mask's !

my english is poor , can not express exactly what i wanta say. i am sorry for that.:p

ps: thank you Noss again that you enlighten me. ;)

[wildjim]

dl351: No problem. Glad I could provide you with the photos.



Madnumforce: Man I haven't heard Billy Idol in like 20 years. Thanks I needed that. :thumb: :D


dingyu1980: He was/is a crazy punk rocker from the 80's that went mainstream. He cheated death about once every week with his lifestyle

http://www.trexle.net/img/posters/264/RS440.jpg


Billy Boss Noss Idol? ; )

[xxo]

http://www.trexle.net/img/posters/264/RS440.jpg


Billy Boss Noss Idol? ; )


are you saying that Billy Idol is Noss's secret identitiy?.......like batman and clark kent? :cool:

[Madnumforce]

are you saying that Billy Idol is Noss's secret identitiy?.......like batman and clark kent? :cool:

Clark Kent is Superman, Batman is Bruce Wayne. Noss is Clark Wayne, aka Maskman!

[wildjim]

http://www.trexle.net/img/posters/264/RS440.jpg





are you saying that Billy Idol is Noss's secret identitiy?.......like batman and clark kent? :cool:

Not exactly, I thought it was funny that dingy calls Noss Boss and a new hair doo and outfit could boost the ratings and public approval ; )

It could be shortened to just Boss Noss instead of Billy Boss Noss Idol

[me2]

I know I've been touting this for a while now, but if my home made knife of M2 with only a 1/16" thick spine can take metal on metal batoning, so should these CRK knives. There is a point on BFC that Noss's tests aren't repeatable, so I may not be able to do the same things here that Noss does, but come on, only 2 or 3 knives of the many tested here broke when they were hammered into wood.

I find it interesting that the impact chart posted here earlier shows a peak in toughness where other impact charts show a trough. Cliff's site is gone, and apparently so is he, since I've not recieved email from him or seen him post on other forums in a long time. However, his torsional impact information was referenced to ASM (American Society for Metals) who litereally wrote the multi-volume book on metal, and has now expanded to other material and more advanced processes. The charts showed a double peak, one at a tempering temperature below 400 F, and another somewhere above 700 F, but I cant remember the exact numbers. The high peak came at a hardness of ~56 HRc, and was higher than the lower temperature peak. Apparently, it all comes down to whoever chops a concrete block with a knife is wrong, no matter where they got their information.