San Mai III or INFI?

[8Elements]

Has anyone tested or just have a lot experience using knives made from San Mai III and INFI?

Whats better? I've already ordered my first Busse Knife BWM LE, but now wondering...

considering a San Mai III Trail master also.

As many others I guess, I want that one knife when I head out camping/hiking etc, or if ever the shit hits the fan, what knife will it be to trust...

[jankerson]

I have never heard of anyone breaking a San Mai III Trail Master.

[Noss]

I don't have any experience with the San Mai III trail master. So I have no feedback to offer on it.

INFI is the best steel I have seen yet in a hard use knife. It's a harder steel with out of this world toughness and strength. It works well in big knives and small knives. It is easy to sharpen and holds a great edge. Many people say it's not a good cutting steel but this is just plain bullshit. I think most of these people are just turned off by the price. For a "When The Shit Hits The Fan Knife" It's INFI for me.

[jankerson]

I don't have any experience with the San Mai III trail master. So I have no feedback to offer on it.

INFI is the best steel I have seen yet in a hard use knife. It's a harder steel with out of this world toughness and strength. It works well in big knives and small knives. It is easy to sharpen and holds a great edge. Many people say it's not a good cutting steel but this is just plain bullshit. I think most of these people are just turned off by the price. For a "When The Shit Hits The Fan Knife" It's INFI for me.



Yep, my thoughts exactly. :thumb::rockon:

[LoganSackett]

I think this is a case where if you pick one, you will forever wonder what you're missing. I doubt you're missing much. Both will serve you very well. Personally I'd look into the design of the knife and pick the design I find more practical.

INFI has shown to be a top performer in the tests here. The layered design of San Mai has been around for a very long time and has a fine reputation. Sorry to give you a "neutral" answer like this because I know it's probably not what you're looking for. I do think that the knife's design is more important when picking between two steels like these.

[8Elements]

Appreciate all the feedback.

It helped clarify some of my own feelings, thanks!

I have a hunch I'll be happy with the BWM, once I get it.

BTW, Noss have you got your BWM yet, I'm assuming you ordered one of course.

[Noss]

No I didn't order a BWM. I already have NMFBM and a CGFBM so I passed on this one. jankerson did though. :thumb: Check the link below.

http://www.knifetest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1265

[kurodrago]

You can sandwich any type of steel "INFI include"!
The real question IS
What in the market today as to offers?
or
What can I build with my money?

[Falcor]

I have both bro and both are good - however INFI feels better and fills you with confidence

[Paul The Brit]

I don't own any san-mai but I do own 3 INFI knives. I do own and use some of Cold Steel's cheap machetes and like those very much (currently a Kukri (bought after Noss's review!) and a 12" Barong (bought because the Kuk was so good). Just a thought though- Busse family knives have a pretty much unconditional forever warranty. Cold Steel is just 5 years against manufacturing faults. Who believes in their product the most??

If you like the Trailmaster design a lot, check out Noss's Busse Basic 9 review, then post a wanted ad! I've got a Basic 7 and that gets more use than anything else I have... I find the res-C (rubber compound) handle is much more comfy in use than the micarta on my BATAC.

Enjoy your shiny Mistress (I'm very jealous!!) and whatever else you get to keep it company!

[cziv]

I never even heard of a Busse knife until I watched Noss's destruction test on one called a Fusion Battle Mistress (I think that was the name).

WOW - those are some kick-ass fixed blade knives! They're so big and bad that the word sword or machete comes to mind.

That must be the INFI steel (never heard of that either) in the thread that Noss put a link too. What impressed me, other than it going right through the darn log like a stick of butter, was that when (jankerson?) walked up to the knife, I could see his reflection in the edge line. Amazing.

Maybe if I sell a few BM's or Spydies I could afford one. Very hardcore - I like, now I want one!!! :smash:

[tester]

thaaaaaaaaaaankksss man 8

[dingyu1980]

this site converted some guys into INFI cult!
one more time```

[kurodrago]

this site converted some guys into INFI cult!
one more time```

Nice one dingyu, nice one:thumb:
More than CULT:D but not everyone agree;)

Have fun and read thi post!!!
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=23455

The last post is so good that nobody had answers:jerkit:
I forgot to compliment you on the knife before, looks real pretty and I know they work...Wear well with it…

What is "custom" for a knife maker/buyer? Well, I get to choose the steel I want (stainless, carbon, Damascus), the length/width/thickness of the blade, the style/shape of the blade, the angles involved and the maker worries about the temper, the grinding etc...I choose the material for the handle scales (Micarta, Mammoth Teeth, Stag, G10 etc.) as well as the materials for the sheath (Kydex, leather, nylon etc.)...The maker worries about production and the price for my custom order which I can accept or reject or counter with changing something(s) about the finished knife...That to me is what options are all about and which Busse doesn’t comply with to any degree…

When you only make one knife and the only options are handle material and colour of the blade and/or handle -- unless you go through their "Custom Shop", then that is not a custom knife! Hell, I don’t know what you catalogue it as...Aren't I buying a custom knife for $347 (10¼” of 3/16th”)? That's at least what I'm being told by people, die hard fans, here on the forum...Then what's their "Custom Shop" all about--a super duper custom knife works B U T they still only offer the one blade B U T now they’ll finish it off for you, take care of the sharp edges and then charge you for that service—on a custom knife!!! They then turn around and charge you $90 for a sheath for it or are these knives only to be used as safe queens—Oh, look at my new Busse—No we can’t take it out to chop down trees with! Aren’t you supposed to use them? How do you then transport them? So the knife is actually $437 plus whatever the "Custom Shop" charges you…

Now a true custom maker, like say Randall (not ESEE) has in their catalogue their Model #1 available in 5, 6, 7 or 8 inch blades but of the same thickness (¼”) and shape in carbon or stainless…There are seven different handle shapes (Commando, Border Patrol, finger grips etc.) I can choose from, an array of handle materials (Micarta, Bone, Antler and wood etc.), I can add one of five different hilts in either brass or silver, five different end cap styles in either brass or silver, sawteeth on the spine, compass in the handle, wrist strap and it comes with a sheath with a stone in the pouch and it retails for $345 base price…Of course that is for a standard brass finished hilted knife…

If I want a different shaped blade--dagger, skinning, drop point--well they're available in different models (20 different stock models)--see the pictures included on this thread...The trio shows the Nbr. 1 on top, straight leather handle with two #14s, 5½ and 7½ inch blades with Micarta finger grip handles; the single is a #12 "Bear Bowie" with 8" blade and Micarta Commando handle (the first custom knife I ever bought--in 1970)…

That ladies and gentlemen is a custom maker and has been for over seventy five (75) years and why from them there is a four (4) year wait if you want the full custom job but you can get one from any of a couple dozen dealers right now, just not a customized version…Oh, and I don’t have to have anything polished, smoothed or thinned afterwards and nor do I have to trim the “fuzzies” off the handle scales…

I’ve said it before—So their (Busses') policies are buy what WE offer not what you want or need because you're buying one of OUR blades and if you want one or OUR blades this is what you get—like it or not...I’d like a few more options then that when spending $437+ regardless how superior they say their steel is -- Which by the way, nine (possibly eleven) other knife steels are rated with similar nitrogen properties including one with a much higher level--15 times as much (Vancron 40 by Bohler-Uddeholm is 1.80N)—INFI is 0.11N, CPM S30V by Crucible and H1 by Myodo are both 0.10N and 14C28N by Sandvik is 0.08N and the last two are truly great knife steels especially the H1 and all are non-propriety to boot …
.

[soapboxpreacher]

INFI is an excellent steel. Busse uses it on I believe all their knives. Busse knives consistently rate highest in nearly all blade criteria, strength being one of the biggest! The short time I have been into the knife scene I have learned alot and also throughout my reading and research noticed that Cold Steel has moved a number of their knives to San Mai III. I believe it is a VG-1 three layer steel with 440 in the mix. Cold Steel drives me nuts sometimes because (and once again...my limited time here) I have noticed they have changed steel so often I am losing track. First it was Carbon V (ok the supplier went under), then AUS8, SK-5 and now VG-1/San Mai III. I noticed this is not common among the top tier knife makers but is common among the lower tier ones. This is of course in my opinion but it seems as if they jockey around for price a lot and market it well enough to move more product. I am certainly no expert but INFI is way up there in a class better than VG-1/San Mai III.

[cziv]

I'm counting the days and waiting for the mailman to come to the door with my first Busse - got the Bushwacker Battle Mistress.

I had to take the plunge and it was the only big chopper they were currently offering so - heck yeah! :rockon:

[jankerson]

I'm counting the days and waiting for the mailman to come to the door with my first Busse - got the Bushwacker Battle Mistress.

I had to take the plunge and it was the only big chopper they were currently offering so - heck yeah! :rockon:

You will love it, congrats. :thumb:

[cziv]

kurodrago & dingyu1980 you're full of sh*t

[jankerson]

kurodrago & dingyu1980 you're full of sh*t.

I'm not in a cult or fanboy of anything. I know quality stuff when I see it long enough and I'm convinced that INFI steel is very tough stuff - their knives are head and shoulders above others in their price range.

If you don't like them and have to post long quotes about them - why not put your time to better use and kick your dog or something like this: :headbang:

Uploading another chopping video now.

I still haven't had to sharpen either my NMFBM or FFBM since I sharpened them the 1st time and both still shave hair and slice through newspaper clean. I have done a lot of chopping with them too. :rockon:

INFI is the best no doubt. :thumb:

[cziv]

Uploading another chopping video now.

Boy that thing makes chunks of wood disappear! Your second chop-through was unbelievable - about 20'some swings!! :D

Too bad my BWBM won't pack that much clout.

I won't be doing much heavy chopping like you do, but I needed to own a large Busse "just because" and that's a good enough reason for me. :D

[jankerson]

When is you BWM getting to you?

[cziv]

I was told 3 to 6 weeks about 10 days ago, so I have no idea honestly? I was told I'd get an email with a tracking number when it ships. :confused:

[jankerson]

I was told 3 to 6 weeks about 10 days ago, so I have no idea honestly? I was told I'd get an email with a tracking number when it ships. :confused:


Yeah that sounds about right. :D

They will send you an email. :thumb:

[The Tourist]

The only Sam Mai knife I have ever owned was a CS Black Sable. I did polish the original one I owned. It was incredibly sharp.

I have always been disappointed that this knife never got any respect. Even I'll admit that the knife appears a tad gaudy, but stripped down to its basic attributes the knife is far superior to lock-backs like the Chinook.

My first Sable was given to a friend who wanted a heavy knife for his job as being a hunting guide in some Mexican wilderness areas. He needed the quiet of isolation, and his new wife, a Mexican national, got him the job from her family. When he returned to the USA to wrap up his affairs, he took the knife. I thought the knife was a bit flashy for this job, but he relates it's one of the best knives he has ever owned.

When the prices dropped recently I replaced it. No question, the knife is one of the best kept secrets out there. At the new price of 159 bucks and all of that titanium, it's a value.

[That's pointy]

I think Infi is better I think it is 52/100 ball bearing steel with an elaberoate heat treat, takes like 3 days to treat.

[cziv]

San Mai means "layered steel" - my understanding. INFI is a singular blade steel that's supposed to be really awesome stuff and Busse supposedly has the heat treat down to a science.

I've never heard or read of the exact breakdown of what the composition of INFI is - it's a secret I guess, but it better be pretty darn good since I justshelled out way over 400 bones for a INFI Bushwacker Mistress.

I love it but it's convex and not really razor sharp. I'll be loading up the strops and hopefull get it scary sharp! :rockon:

[fhm615]

I would be careful about buying a San Mai if you don't know how to sharpen a rolled edge. This can be tricky to do. It does add a great deal of edge strength to the knife however.

Regards-

FHM615

[maddogg774]

If you can get INFI do it!

[styx]

Don't know about San Mai III steel, but INFI is proved.
And the over priced issue with it is simply bs. Sure I'd like to see it cheaper, but lets not forget that we are still coughing up big money for the inferior 1095. So until the lower end steels get a price reduction, INFI is still gonna be priced realistically considering the performance/value

[Old Spice]

Its not like busse is the only expensive knife out there. The whole argument about price is bs when you consider the amount of crap that is sold for the same or more, stuff that has proven to be shit like the green beret. Then when you consider how expensive some production lines are, like the cold steel Natchez bowie in san mai that costs 400 bucks retail. How can you honestly complain about busse's prices? If they are to high for you, you can always get a knife from one of the kin companies and have a knife that is just about as awesome.
That guy on the survivalist forums was an obvious fan-boy of randel/ busser hater.

Besides we need a knife test done on one of Randels knives now that I think about it.

[styx]

Right on the point man. Considering everything Busse knives aren't even that expensive

[The_Price_Is_Right]

Its not like busse is the only expensive knife out there. The whole argument about price is bs when you consider the amount of crap that is sold for the same or more, stuff that has proven to be shit like the green beret. Then when you consider how expensive some production lines are, like the cold steel Natchez bowie in san mai that costs 400 bucks retail. How can you honestly complain about busse's prices? If they are to high for you, you can always get a knife from one of the kin companies and have a knife that is just about as awesome.
That guy on the survivalist forums was an obvious fan-boy of randel/ busser hater.

Besides we need a knife test done on one of Randels knives now that I think about it.

I doubt that a Randall made knife would be able to take the same abuse as a Busse, just look at the construction of the tang.

https://www.randallknives.com/images/knifecons.jpg

[dingyu1980]

randall made knives are really sexy . and hand forging carbon steel is tough , but the tang of above knife is not design for abuse .

[chiral.grolim]

The "stick"-tang design seen in the Randall knives is not weak, no more so than in the similar-sized KaBar, almost every puukko, Buck, Fallkniven, BRKT, HI, etc. knives. The Gerber LMFII has a similar tang, though certainly not hand-forged. In these knives, and indeed in the majority of all knives, stress is most often concentrated on the blade, not on what is inside the handle. Assuming sound metal (no inclusions or weld-joints) from point to pommel, fracture will most certainly occur ahead of the tang in the blade.

I'd have fewer concerns about failure abusing an O1 Randall than I would abusing a full-width tang 1095 TOPS, Becker, or even an ESEE... unless i was deliberately trying to knock the handle off, and that screw-cap butt might snap a bit too easily. Still, Randalls are pretty but they are made to endure. I'm not saying that its toughness will compare to Bussekin INFI, SR101, or SR77. I'm just saying that my go-to beater/abuse knife is a Cattaraugus 225Q with a tang like that (minus the screw-tail), and there's nothing weak about it.:rockon:

[Old Spice]

Just realized its forged and then tempered. Dumb question.

[razoredgeknives]

Uploading another chopping video now.

I still haven't had to sharpen either my NMFBM or FFBM since I sharpened them the 1st time and both still shave hair and slice through newspaper clean. I have done a lot of chopping with them too. :rockon:

INFI is the best no doubt. :thumb:

i second this... just took my busse combat jack out for a 3 day campin trip and used it a lot (everything from chopping wood and batoning to cutting up fish). still goin strong and doesn't need to be re-sharpened as it is still shaving hair on my arm. i haven't even steeled it yet! :D i got it sharpened to 21 degree bevel per side (less than that the edge will degrade too quickly). it is holding up nicely, and has impressed the heck outa me. not to mention the warranty jerry busse offers... you definetly won't be disappointed!

[kurodrago]

kurodrago & dingyu1980 you're full of sh*t




I have one Busse purchase that arrived dull as a butter knife. It felt good in hand but was dull, overpriced and I didn't know how to mount the cardboard sheath on my belt. :(

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/846965-Busse-v-Randall-s-Adventure-amp-Training-ESEE?p=9590670#post9590670

post #20


You're embarrassing...........dickhead:jerkit:


editing want help you neither:D:thumb:

[Old Spice]

I don't really get upset any more when an edge doesn't coming super sharp cause it takes me only a few seconds to get it there anyway. Also good catch kuro.

[fncrazyno]

@cziv
I would like to see a picture of your busse with a shipping receipt as I have been looking at their site for almost a year now and the Bushwacker you talk about has not been offered for sale by them during this time that I am aware of, and I contacted them several months ago and they do not take orders for knives, they will post what is in current production only for sale.

Here is my SAR that is scary sharp.

[kurodrago]

Ok, let me explain what happened.
After seeing the post # 20 on BF of Mr,cziv, I reply him on the same thread on #27.
Mr,cziv was so shame that he came here to edited in this forum (this thread) the post # 18!.....of course today!


So what Mr, cziv edited....... & you go....
I know a good product when I see one ( is talking about Busse knife)

Mr, cziv....let me tell you what .... dingyu1980 own a Busse knife as fact.
I personally own 4 Busse knife, 'm fucking proud of it & they will stay with me until death...No fucking flipping with me Sorry.

The next time you come here you will say....
I am sorry Busse Co. for talking shit on you back
I am sorry dingyu1980...
I am sorry kurodrago!
The last thing I make more than $20 per a day & I as knife nuts,I fight HOG too!:D
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/843911-SAR4-vs-SAR5-vs-SAR6

[cziv]

You're embarrassing...........dickhead


editing want help you neither

I may be emabarrassing to "whomever" by your retarded standards kurodrago but I consider that a compliment since you obviously are emotionally impaired or something. Have fun with your jerkit smilies, that's probably all the fun you have in life! :D

Ok, let me explain what happened.
After seeing the post # 20 on BF of Mr,cziv, I reply him on the same thread on #27.
Mr,cziv was so shame that he came here to edited in this forum (this thread) the post # 18!.....of course today!


So what Mr, cziv edited....... & you go....
I know a good product when I see one ( is talking about Busse knife)

Mr, cziv....let me tell you what .... dingyu1980 own a Busse knife as fact.
I personally own 4 Busse knife, 'm fucking proud of it & they will stay with me until death...No fucking flipping with me Sorry.

The next time you come here you will say....
I am sorry Busse Co. for talking shit on you back
I am sorry dingyu1980...
I am sorry kurodrago!
The last thing I make more than $20 per a day & I as knife nuts,I fight HOG too!:D
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/843911-SAR4-vs-SAR5-vs-SAR6

I edited my post because unknowingly I'm sure, you made an ass out of yourself and cross-forum posted, then got infracted for it (like a bozo).

What we say here is for here and what we say there is for there. I have PM & email enabled at all forums. If you had a problem or didn't understand me you could have contacted me instead of getting dumped on at BF.

I am not sorry for one word I wrote. I said the Busse came in as dull as a butter knife - which it did. I also praised it's fit and finish.

Shortly after the arrival of my Bushwhacker, my ESEE Junglas came in about 2 weeks later at less than 1/2 price, with a sheath included which would cost as much to buy as the knife itself - all together for $150!! Less than 1/2 the price of the Busse and a hell of a razor sharp 10" chopper.

It cut rings around the Busse. I posted this in Busse's subforum and Jerry made a thread because he sent out a bunch of dull knives (when I got mine) and offered to have us send them in and he would make them razor sharp.

Since you aren't razor sharp, you probably missed that thread, since he took so much heat about it that he locked it down and it disappeared in a day or two.

I sold my BWM as I didn't like it at all after that experience and won't buy another. I'm glad you love yours and want to be buried with them - good luck on that one. :thumb:

No Busse pics, I deleted them when I sold it. Check out these threads and maybe you'll understand how I was disappointed by Busse, or maybe you won't.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/729197-New-Busse-Ordered-Today

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/734279-Bushwacker-Battle-Mistress-In-The-House

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/770244-How-to-Sharpen-a-BUSSE-Bushwacker-Mistress?p=8607567#post8607567

Esse Arrives:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/741034-New-Junglas-Arrived

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/741582-Junglas-22-At-It-Again!

Don't waste your time on me, you guys are both a couple of jerks who take it personnaly that I would change my mind about a knife. You must have boring lives. Shooo now - go buy a real chopper and save some $$

I cut all of this with one cigarette in my mouth and a Junglas!

http://ronin.smugmug.com/Portfolio/Product-Pics/new-pics-396/942556243_E7vEs-L.jpg

[kurodrago]

I may be emabarrassing to "whomever" by your retarded standards kurodrago but I consider that a compliment since you obviously are emotionally impaired or something. Have fun with your jerkit smilies, that's probably all the fun you have in life! :D



I edited my post because unknowingly I'm sure, you made an ass out of yourself and cross-forum posted, then got infracted for it (like a bozo).

What we say here is for here and what we say there is for there. I have PM & email enabled at all forums. If you had a problem or didn't understand me you could have contacted me instead of getting dumped on at BF.

I am not sorry for one word I wrote. I said the Busse came in as dull as a butter knife - which it did. I also praised it's fit and finish.

Shortly after the arrival of my Bushwhacker, my ESEE Junglas came in about 2 weeks later at less than 1/2 price, with a sheath included which would cost as much to buy as the knife itself - all together for $150!! Less than 1/2 the price of the Busse and a hell of a razor sharp 10" chopper.

It cut rings around the Busse. I posted this in Busse's subforum and Jerry made a thread because he sent out a bunch of dull knives (when I got mine) and offered to have us send them in and he would make them razor sharp.

Since you aren't razor sharp, you probably missed that thread, since he took so much heat about it that he locked it down and it disappeared in a day or two.

I sold my BWM as I didn't like it at all after that experience and won't buy another. I'm glad you love yours and want to be buried with them - good luck on that one. :thumb:

No Busse pics, I deleted them when I sold it. Check out these threads and maybe you'll understand how I was disappointed by Busse, or maybe you won't.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/729197-New-Busse-Ordered-Today

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/734279-Bushwacker-Battle-Mistress-In-The-House

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/770244-How-to-Sharpen-a-BUSSE-Bushwacker-Mistress?p=8607567#post8607567

Esse Arrives:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/741034-New-Junglas-Arrived

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/741582-Junglas-22-At-It-Again!

Don't waste your time on me, you guys are both a couple of jerks who take it personnaly that I would change my mind about a knife. You must have boring lives. Shooo now - go buy a real chopper and save some $$

I cut all of this with one cigarette in my mouth and a Junglas!

http://ronin.smugmug.com/Portfolio/Product-Pics/new-pics-396/942556243_E7vEs-L.jpg

So... you maen that you're full of shit...right:D:jerkit:
My sugestion to you is, go to in the nearest toilet put your head into and at least pulls the water 3 times:D:thumb:
After this come back here & rewrite everything from the beginning...
....because....You have a contradiction on your ASS!:D:thumb:

[cziv]

Whatever you say kurodrago. You're living proof that humans and primates should not mate.

http://ronin.smugmug.com/Portfolio/Product-Pics/idiots/1155659029_7L825-XL.jpg

[Old Spice]

Sorry you didn't enjoy your busse cziv. Comparing the esse line with the busse line isn't really fair for either though, esee isn't going to be as tough, the busse isn't going to be as inexpensive. I would compare esse with either scrapyard or swamprat, as they are in line price wise and are more comparable as products. Sharpness from the factory has been a problem and I could see that being a problem if you can't sharpen on your own, or if it takes you a long time to do because of your chosen method.

Enjoy your Junglas.

[kurodrago]

Sorry you didn't enjoy your busse cziv. Comparing the esse line with the busse line isn't really fair for either though, esee isn't going to be as tough, the busse isn't going to be as inexpensive. I would compare esse with either scrapyard or swamprat, as they are in line price wise and are more comparable as products. Sharpness from the factory has been a problem and I could see that being a problem if you can't sharpen on your own, or if it takes you a long time to do because of your chosen method.

Enjoy your Junglas.



We have already discussed this junglas thing.......take a look the author of this thread:D


http://knifetest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1463

[cziv]

Sorry you didn't enjoy your busse cziv. Comparing the esse line with the busse line isn't really fair for either though, esee isn't going to be as tough, the busse isn't going to be as inexpensive. I would compare esse with either scrapyard or swamprat, as they are in line price wise and are more comparable as products. Sharpness from the factory has been a problem and I could see that being a problem if you can't sharpen on your own, or if it takes you a long time to do because of your chosen method.

Enjoy your Junglas.

That's a fact Old Spice. I didn't start that thread "ESEE vs BUSSE" but shared my experience:

Spot on observation. Guys are cashing in on the ESEE 3 & 4 aftermarket handles to replace the crap handles they put on. The Junglas is the only one that has an ample handle imo.

I have one Busse purchase that arrived dull as a butter knife. It felt good in hand but was dull, overpriced and I didn't know how to mount the cardboard sheath on my belt.

For what you get, between the $159 Junglas package compared to the $419 BWM that I got (both delivered prices), there was no comparing. There was more knife for the money in the Junglas. "Sharpen" the BWM and lower the price a bit and throw in a good sheath and the Busse would be my choice.

I wanted to like it but a damn knife that I paid that much for and tears a peice of paper, no sheath - keep it! :thumbdwn:

I just got done cutting down another big pile of bushes with the ESEE today and still working off the same factory edge as last summer. It's an amazing value plus the sheath is like a custom.

I don't miss the BWM so no big deal. kurodrago is po'ed because he's 1) full of crap and 2) thinks that "supposedly" outing a contradictory statement, that he's too ignorant to understand in the larger context of things, is a "WIN" for him. Pathetic. :o

We have already discussed this junglas thing.......take a look of author of this thread:D


http://knifetest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1463

Yes we have, that's the truth - so what kurodrago? I got the ESEE Junglas and liked it better.

In the thread you've posted a couple of times on the previous page you made a complete ass out of yourself - again kurodrago, just read it:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...s-SAR5-vs-SAR6

A small excerpt:

kurodrago,
LVC is entitled to have an opinion, just like you...and, he's shown remarkable patience in explaining what he does and doesn't like about it, and what he's done to make it better FOR HIM. Although he's gone to great lengths to show his reasons, I have not seen him use the word "crap" as an adjective to describe the SAR5. YOU, on the other hand, have been remarkably insulting and obtuse about an opinion different from your own...

I would suggest that you either check that attitude of yours shown here, or stand down...now.

It seems like being a jerk and your name collide on whatever board you're posting on guy. Your mouth overloads your brain continuously. I am through insulting you - in case you didn't know that I was. And, you can WIN and expose me for whatever you're silly "jerkit" motives might be. I coudn't care less now that I've tired of playing and watching you dance like an evil little puppet. :D

[paulie]

Say Heah Guys,,,My next knife will be a Busse,,,I have the Trailmaster and a Natchez and a Black Sable and a Talwar and a Recon Tanto in the San Mai,,,there's no comparison on my 1980 trailmaster as far as lamination of the San Mai,,,its much better,,,mind you,,,the harder the steel the more brittle,,,VG-1 is less likely to chip then a VG-10,,,the NIFI is hands down a better steell for a knife blade,,,in my opinion,,,and an opinion is like a nose,,,everybody has one,,,and I've used my friends NIFi,,,no lamination and its tuff,,,Paulie

[kurodrago]

That's a fact Old Spice. I didn't start that thread "ESEE vs BUSSE" but shared my experience:



For what you get, between the $159 Junglas package compared to the $419 BWM that I got (both delivered prices), there was no comparing. There was more knife for the money in the Junglas. "Sharpen" the BWM and lower the price a bit and throw in a good sheath and the Busse would be my choice.

I wanted to like it but a damn knife that I paid that much for and tears a peice of paper, no sheath - keep it! :thumbdwn:

I just got done cutting down another big pile of bushes with the ESEE today and still working off the same factory edge as last summer. It's an amazing value plus the sheath is like a custom.

I don't miss the BWM so no big deal. kurodrago is po'ed because he's 1) full of crap and 2) thinks that "supposedly" outing a contradictory statement, that he's too ignorant to understand in the larger context of things, is a "WIN" for him. Pathetic. :o



Yes we have, that's the truth - so what kurodrago? I got the ESEE Junglas and liked it better.

In the thread you've posted a couple of times on the previous page you made a complete ass out of yourself - again kurodrago, just read it:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...s-SAR5-vs-SAR6

A small excerpt:



It seems like being a jerk and your name collide on whatever board you're posting on guy. Your mouth overloads your brain continuously. I am through insulting you - in case you didn't know that I was. And, you can WIN and expose me for whatever you're silly "jerkit" motives might be. I coudn't care less now that I've tired of playing and watching you dance like an evil little puppet. :D

You lost many credits, when you come to this forum for posting, put on a mask made of penis:jerkit: my boy:D:D

[Old Spice]

If it works it works, other wise look for something else. For me, a guy that is constantly breaking stuff the extra toughness is of great value to me, especial considering how easy it is to correct an edge. It gets tiresome having to replace stuff cause its not up to the task.

I think the Junglas should get a d-test just so we can see if it is as brittle as the Rtak version.

[The_Price_Is_Right]

If it works it works, other wise look for something else. For me, a guy that is constantly breaking stuff the extra toughness is of great value to me, especial considering how easy it is to correct an edge. It gets tiresome having to replace stuff cause its not up to the task.

I think the Junglas should get a d-test just so we can see if it is as brittle as the Rtak version.

Another worthy test would be the ESEE 5 as it is 1/4" thick vs Junglas, which is 3/16".

[Madnumforce]

@cziv

I understand you were disappointed in receiving a dull knife you paid that much. But on the other hand, the fact it comes with a "cardboard sheath" is well known, and when you buy a Busse, you know you pay the big bucks. It's a production somewhat out of any standard. You're supposed to know it when you buy. So maybe the dull (or inexistent) edge was the straw that brokes the camel's back, but what appears to me, in my opinion, is mainly that you regret that you have bought that BWM, not the product itself, am I right?

[kurodrago]

Another worthy test would be the ESEE 5 as it is 1/4" thick vs Junglas, which is 3/16".

A better one will be my Steel Eagle Blade Length: 7.0",O/A Length: 13",
Thickness: 1/4",Weight: 22oz:) steel 1095



http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/060.jpg
Becouse I fear that one of those can cut in half that thing:D:D:D

[styx]

@kurodrago what models are those in the pic? I'm not good with Busse knives and knowing their models, names and everything else.

Now to everyone - why are you arguing? Isn't it a known fact that is sth is stupid but works, then it's not stupid? If an ESEE Junglas works better for someone than a Busse, fine.
I've never held a Busse, but one of my holy grails is the Busse Tank Buster without a choil. And I want to try Swam rat too if I could find a model that fits some basic things.

ESEE-6 was also good to me. Had to sell it for legal reasons, but at the time it was a heck of a knife. Since I'm back home now so I'm looking to get a Fallkniven F1 because the weather is not too friendly to carbon steels on longer trips.

So it comes down to choices and preferences. And isn't diversity what makes loving knives that great? And using them even better? Different strokes for different folks

[kurodrago]

@kurodrago what models are those in the pic? I'm not good with Busse knives and knowing their models, names and everything else.

Now to everyone - why are you arguing?



I'm not good with Busse knive either but, 'm good with what I Like.
The pic knive....
The NMSFNO is 8 inches, and I can tell you it has plenty of chopping power, but it's not huge Knife.
The NMSFNO large enough to chop well and be a great all around camp knife, small enough that it's actually reasonably practical to carry it.
The NMSFNO is perfect!...perfect balance, perfect length, just an elegant design and frightening beauty.
Both of them are NMSFNO


We not arguing...I just expose cziv for what he really is....a stupid player & liar!

[styx]

thx for teh info

[Agith]

Heh... You say the Junglass comes sharp? Get a fallkniven... Mine came with an edge that took major practice to get used to... Drew blood about 5 times total over the course of my first 2 weeks of having my F1. I think it was partially because it was just so lovely instinctively I thought " Damn...This thing cannot still be sharp" And go to check it by the thumb across the edge... It somehow cut me with out much pressure on the blade.

[xxo]

Heh... You say the Junglass comes sharp? Get a fallkniven... Mine came with an edge that took major practice to get used to... Drew blood about 5 times total over the course of my first 2 weeks of having my F1. I think it was partially because it was just so lovely instinctively I thought " Damn...This thing cannot still be sharp" And go to check it by the thumb across the edge... It somehow cut me with out much pressure on the blade.


not all f1s comae that sharp from the factory....at least the mine didn't, it was able to scrape shave but that's about it......had to sharpen it the day i got it.....good knife just not super sharp out of the box. Spyderco's made in Golden and Seki city have been consistently sharpest out of the box in my experience. Kershaws seem to come pretty sharp too, but I don't have as much experience with them.

[styx]

First thing I did with my Spyderco when I got it was to shave. Worked good actually

[kurodrago]

The best

#1 sharp from the factory is......
CRKT M1 ....verry frightening sharp:eek:


#2 sharp from the factory is........
Spyderco Native 3....just scary:D

[Noss]

Control the name calling men.

[kurodrago]

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/fmostro.jpg

[Agith]

Wait...So do Busse blades come with an edge? Or do they require grinding by the buyer? ... I know the sheaths have to be bought separately but I do hope this is a misconception on my part when it comes to the edge.

[Old Spice]

Some times you get a bad egg and the edge is dull, I doubt that a knife was shipped with an unserviceable edge.

[kurodrago]

As far my knowledge go, the custom shop is extremely sharp, the others Busse come with acceptable sharpness. Not dull like someone said in this thread.
I have one my busse that has been sharp by Ban, zero convex, 2 of my Busse sharp by Richard and one by me!

This one sharp by me!:rockon:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/NEC_0108.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/NEC_0109.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/NEC_0110.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/NEC_0111.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/NEC_0113.jpg

[Agith]

:3 Damn you...Now I want honey dew melon.

[kurodrago]

...........Please Please, feel free and take a piece:D:thumb:


http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/NEC_0123.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/NEC_0126.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/kurodrago/NEC_0131.jpg

[Agith]

Graaah * Takes the melon... And the busse for that matter*

[burronia]

Every steel is good as good are the treatments tha it received. INFI is a good multipurpose steel, in my opinion. Anyway A san mai should be better because of the multiple layers. Other very good choice wuold be vanadis 4e that ha no chipping problem and keep a very fine razor edge for a long time.

[burronia]

Anyway, all my BUsse are arrived with a razor sharp edge. Non of them was dull ora not razor sharp. From 2001 to 2009. (SH ergo ,SJTAC and Street Boss).

[BimotaBoy]

I will take my Busse any day over my trailmaster. :thumb:

[kurodrago]

I will take my Busse any day over my trailmaster. :thumb:

Busse model please + pic + thank u:D

[BimotaBoy]

The one I grab the most is my combat grade NMSFNO green blade with green micarta.
It is scuffed up a bit and will post some pics when I get in from offshore. :thumb:

[Cliff.Stamp]

It is unfortunate when anyone buys a knife and is as frustrated as was seen here. As a bit of hopefully balanced perspective :

1) Busse Combat has never been consistently praised for high initial sharpness. In fact for as long as I have been using them, and this is when you could only buy a BM, there were no other anagrams available, there were repeated complaints about problems with sharpness. I have never understood this as the easiest part about making a knife is sharpening it and for a lot of people initial sharpness is one of the most important things in a knife. Now we can argue about the practical value, but if there is something you can do for little to no cost which is important to even a small section of your customer base then why the hell not do it.

2) Removing the sheaths was a controversial move and again has plagued the company as a common complaint since it happened. My Battle Mistress came with one of, if not the best, Kydex sheaths I have seen and I don't like Kydex at all as a sheath material. Again, for a significant portion of the customer base an initial sheath is very important and they are not going to want to have to shop around. The decision to not offer even a basic sheath again causes Busse problems, but does allow them to maintain a price point on the market because when a lot of people see them for the first time they don't take into account that you have to add the price of the sheath, this is a very old marketing technique. The argument is that you gain more customers from the lower price than you lose from when they find out they need a sheath.

3) It isn't sensible to look at the prices of two knives one from a company which has literally been around for as long as Busse with a relatively new company like ESEE and complain about the price difference. Just consider if Jerry Busse started making knives right now today, could he sell for that price? Of course not, when you buy a Busse you are paying for the years of experience, design and certainty of performance from the years of live demonstrations, customer support and just time after time of guaranteed performance. Do you really think a dozen years from now that the ESEE knives will still be at that price point as their reputation and demand grows?

[BimotaBoy]

This is the same color and model I have.1173 :rockon:
http://http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii313/BimotaBoy/nmsfnogreenblack777.jpg

[kurodrago]

This is the same color and model I have.1173 :rockon:
http://http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii313/BimotaBoy/nmsfnogreenblack777.jpg

NMSFNO the best of the best:rockon:

[kurodrago]

1) I have never understood this as the easiest part about making a knife is sharpening it and for a lot of people initial sharpness is one of the most important things in a knife.

Ditto on that.
Too many Co. do terrible sharpening on knives before release in market...I really don't understand why:headbang:

[styx]

Because some manufacturers used to send their knives dull as bricks. And honestly how can you wow people better than by saying "it shaved straight out of the box"? Majority of those that read or watch vids that have that testing the initial sharpness are not knife people and mostly have very little experience with sharpening.

[Jerry Busse]

It is unfortunate when anyone buys a knife and is as frustrated as was seen here. As a bit of hopefully balanced perspective :

1) Busse Combat has never been consistently praised for high initial sharpness. In fact for as long as I have been using them, and this is when you could only buy a BM, there were no other anagrams available, there were repeated complaints about problems with sharpness. I have never understood this as the easiest part about making a knife is sharpening it and for a lot of people initial sharpness is one of the most important things in a knife. Now we can argue about the practical value, but if there is something you can do for little to no cost which is important to even a small section of your customer base then why the hell not do it.

2) Removing the sheaths was a controversial move and again has plagued the company as a common complaint since it happened. My Battle Mistress came with one of, if not the best, Kydex sheaths I have seen and I don't like Kydex at all as a sheath material. Again, for a significant portion of the customer base an initial sheath is very important and they are not going to want to have to shop around. The decision to not offer even a basic sheath again causes Busse problems, but does allow them to maintain a price point on the market because when a lot of people see them for the first time they don't take into account that you have to add the price of the sheath, this is a very old marketing technique. The argument is that you gain more customers from the lower price than you lose from when they find out they need a sheath.

3) It isn't sensible to look at the prices of two knives one from a company which has literally been around for as long as Busse with a relatively new company like ESEE and complain about the price difference. Just consider if Jerry Busse started making knives right now today, could he sell for that price? Of course not, when you buy a Busse you are paying for the years of experience, design and certainty of performance from the years of live demonstrations, customer support and just time after time of guaranteed performance. Do you really think a dozen years from now that the ESEE knives will still be at that price point as their reputation and demand grows?

Holy Oinkin' Thunder!!! . . . . . Cliffy is back!!!

It's great to see the Mad Physicist over here with Captain Wild Hammer!!!! :rockon:

Do your Moms know that you two are playing together? :confused: :D

In response to your remarks . . . here ya go:

1.) Spotty initial sharpness is a thing of the past. Every knife must be able to easily slice paper before it is packed and the paper it sliced is included in the package. The name of the person who sharpened the blade is also included for total accountability. Of course, there are still occasional customers who expect a heavy chopper to have a fine edge like a much smaller knife that is meant primarily for slicing.

2.) We still don't include sheaths because we don't want people to pay for something that they may not want. We are moving towards some optional sheaths that will be available at the time of purchase.

3.) If you want to compare Esees against another knife then compare them against other knives with similar performance that are made from the same inexpensive 1095 steel, like TOPs and Ontario. The performance leap that you get with the much more expensive SR-101 steel in a Scrap Yard and/or Swamp Rat is huge for a little more money.

Remember also that we make our own knives right here in Ohio. :thumb: We do not subcontract our blades out. The only name on the blade is ours. That is why we have NEVER changed our lifetime warranty in over 30 years. :rockon: Companies that farm their work out will sometimes have to change their warranties when they change manufacturers and can no longer get repairs made by that manufacturer.

Let's Drink!!! :rockon:

Jerry :D




.



.

[Cliff.Stamp]

The more things change ...


1.) Spotty initial sharpness is a thing of the past.

Nice to see that taken care of, it never mattered much to me, but for a lot of people the sharpness of the knife is directly an indication of the quality.

[BimotaBoy]

Jerry,

Thanks for your post. All my knives from you have been nasty sharp, and are easy to get back that way. Now if we can get you to make a limited Knife tests blade that is only available to members. (my money is waiting!) :thumb:

[Old Spice]

ESEE would lose a lot of its competitiveness if it started to hike prices on 1095 anyway. It would be hard to justify the cost in a reasonable way. Especially when standards are set high.


3.) If you want to compare Esees against another knife then compare them against other knives with similar performance that are made from the same inexpensive 1095 steel, like TOPs and Ontario. The performance leap that you get with the much more expensive SR-101 steel in a Scrap Yard and/or Swamp Rat is huge for a little more money.

The difference in stock price seems to be huge, from the quotes I got from steels companies, SR-101 stock makes up at least 34% of the cost of a RatManDu, while 1095 stock only makes up 3% of the total cost of the ESEE 5 at its retail price. Its MSRP would make it only 2% of the total cost. Maybe you get a better deal on your steel, but that is a huge difference.

My question is, how is SR-101 composition different from typical 52100? Are tighter specs used at the foundry? Or is it just for the sake of differentiation?

[dingyu1980]

SR101 need a d-test here , to prove what you boss said.

thank you jerry.

dingy

[styx]

Yep, SR101 still hasn't been tested by Noss. Although I think Cliff did test it.

Wait someone remind me, Scrapper 6 was in SR77 or sth else?

[dingyu1980]

Yep, SR101 still hasn't been tested by Noss. Although I think Cliff did test it.

Wait someone remind me, Scrapper 6 was in SR77 or sth else?


i do not know jerry whether or not dare to challenge the d-test with a knife made of sr101 .

m9 or rodent 9 maybe a good candidate , i think.

sy6 is made of s7 .

[Cliff.Stamp]

Noss can have my Ratweiler, it is SR101. I will regrind the edge to a stock 20 degree bevel first though as right now it is about 8 degrees per side, sweeping to 12 degrees per side in the last < 0.15" thick.

[dingyu1980]

tons of thanks , man. you rock.

[Cliff.Stamp]

Noss, just let me know when and if you want it and your address in a PM.

[dingyu1980]

Noss, just let me know when and if you want it and your address in a PM.

what is your expection on your doomed knife , cliff ?

can get 5 swords in the d-test ?

[Cliff.Stamp]

The edge will take some wear on the concrete, everything else should be fine.

[Jerry Busse]

Cliff,

Kind gesture Cliff, but there's no need to send in your own personal blade.

When Noss is ready to Hammer Slam one, he can contact us directly and we'll get him set up. . . .

Don't you think that your own personal blades have earned a better retirement than the slaughter house?. . . . Maybe a little time on the beach with a margarita? :rockon:


Jerry :D


.

[Cliff.Stamp]

My blades never retire, not yours anyway, they keep on going. This is the personal shop BM I bought from you way back when in the ancient days of the internets when you had no forum and I broke the T.U.S.K from McClung and I was told, well if you want a really solid blade then Busse is the way to go. This by the way was also when Earl Stewart was claiming that he could outchop you with a BM with him using the McClung ATAK. If only we had YouTube in those days and could have demanded a video of that.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/CliffStamp/ESEE/Junglas/P9180016.jpg


The rest of them, other manufacturers and such, well, the same can not always be said. That orange gunk on the BM isn't rust, it is just gunk, I don't clean it or oil it. It gets used and sharpened, the stuff on the flats comes and goes.

[styx]

Well Jerry, I personally prefer mojitos. And do you really think it would get beaten. All Busse kin has went out swinging so far so I'm taking bets. Beer is the preferred currency

[Old Spice]

I think Jerry means he would rather submit a new knife to noss' test instead of cliff having to give up his.

[BimotaBoy]

Why is it that everytime Jerry post's he ends it with some kind of adult beverage? I am begining to think that the man likes to drink! (and if he didnt, I am not sure I could trust him) I think the reason he wont tell anyone what INFI is, is because it came to him in a drunken stuper and he just cant remember! (ROCK ON Jerry!):rockon:

[Noss]

Noss, just let me know when and if you want it and your address in a PM.

Thanks for the offer. Since Jerry said he will send one there is no sense in destroying your trusted user. Thanks man


Jerry, Thanks. I'll contact you when I'm ready.

[me2]

Well, things have taken an interesting turn.

[fncrazyno]

They certainly have.

[Chum]

I have a suggestion for Noss if he just doesn't have the time for full on destruction tests...

Just fire the knives at a brick wall with the spear machine until they break. Give the knives a rating based on how many times they hit the wall without breakage :D

[Cliff.Stamp]

Just look in general to Jerry's reaction to Noss's work and for example Reeve or Stewart. It really surprises me how people can read the comments of both makers and not see the obvious difference in someone who sells based on hype and someone who is perfectly confident that his product does what he says it can do.

Why is it that everytime Jerry post's he ends it with some kind of adult beverage?

Because that is how they start.

[cziv]

Just look in general to Jerry's reaction to Noss's work and for example Reeve or Stewart. It really surprises me how people can read the comments of both makers and not see the obvious difference in someone who sells based on hype and someone who is perfectly confident that his product does what he says it can do.



Because that is how they start.

So the Ratweiler in SR101 is at issue for testing then?

Cliff I absolutely agree with you. I've had my own headbutting sessions with Reeve over a bad grind with a deep notch in it. He's absolutely an arrogant dude to speak with if you're not gushing praise on him.

I can't afford Mr. Busse's knives since I have no use for those big things. Being a folder guy I buy from Rick Hinderer who has outrightly told me to "beat the crap out of it" and on flipping the blade he replied "slam the hell out of it."

Makers like Jerry (fixed blades) and Rick (folders) wouldn't be so darn confident if they knew their product wasn't tougher than heck.

That's another contradiction kudrago (if you're still keeping score). See, I told you I change my mind and Jerry Busse's replies have just changed it again. His knives have always felt the best in the hand but I didn't have confidence in one model. No big deal anymore.

I can't wait to see the test NOSS.. :D

[dingyu1980]

i am satisfied with the kind gesture of you , sooooo sweet , boss.

dingy

[mick the welder]

And that's exactly why I buy busse.

[styx]

Just look in general to Jerry's reaction to Noss's work and for example Reeve or Stewart. It really surprises me how people can read the comments of both makers and not see the obvious difference in someone who sells based on hype and someone who is perfectly confident that his product does what he says it can do.


That's because some make knives and others make money. If you bust certain knives they will ask for it back to inspect it, say thanks and replace it.
Others will just say lemon, bad batch, you're a dickhead.

Come to think of it, with all that alcohol, seems like the start of Busse knives was when someone said sth was impossible and Jerry replied with "hold my beer and watch this". And all of us, the entire community from forum troll fanboys to makers, have been watching ever since

[dingyu1980]

jerry , you are the man.

dingy

[kurodrago]

That's another contradiction kudrago

Its not what you said, it's the way you said it. I hope enjoy the forum & Sorry if I been too hard on ya.

[Noss]

I'm having a problem with one of my eyes (can't see worth a shit at the moment) I'm having surgery this month.

So as soon as I get my sight back, I'll contact Jerry and we will test some SR-101 :thumb:

[cziv]

Its not what you said, it's the way you said it. I hope enjoy the forum & Sorry if I been too hard on ya.

Okay, fair enough. Apology accepted - thanks. :thumb:

Get better soon Noss! :)

[Noss]

Okay, fair enough. Apology accepted - thanks. :thumb:

Get better soon Noss! :)

Thanks. :)

[dingyu1980]

NOSS , i am sorry to hear that , good luck man.

[Noss]

NOSS , i am sorry to hear that , good luck man.

Thanks. It's not anything to serious. It's just a common surgery to fix the problem.

[kurodrago]

Noss are' you looking to become a pirate:D
You got the wound at work?
Man, I'm beginning to understand that love a little too much hospitals:p

[styx]

No surgery is common, trust me. Hope it goes well

[trooperbrujo]

No surgery is common, trust me. Hope it goes well

Yeah, you can't take anything for granted. Good luck, Noss.

[hugofeynman]

Good luck, great Noss!!!

[Noss]

Thanks men, :thumb:

[BimotaBoy]

I hope all goes well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Noss]

I hope all goes well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks. It's hard to read the forum so I haven't been on much. Looking forward to the surgery.