Busse Basic 9 Video Destruction Test Completed

[Noss]

I had an emergency this morning about 4:00am, so I was delayed. I still need to create the Web page. The fastest way is to post them here for you before I get everything else done today.

The Basic 9 did very well an would have survived without a catastrophic failure If I didn't screw up placing the knife back in the same position during the side tang impact test. The Basic 9 will be declared a survivor an giving a 6 sword rating.

Steel: M-INFI

The videos are in 8 parts.

Enjoy the videos. They were made for you. :)

Thanks to Will for making the test possible.


Part 1
G0hT6xc0b9k

Part 2
F7nBpke7F8M

Part 3
gE-SHOXNB2k

Part 4
o7DpmSx0b9w

Part 5
V5vFJBB5esk

Part 6
MGUv4ICjpAA

Part 7
ptU_r5zrdBA

Part 8
yncABo4rMLE

[eatingmuchface]

man!
i have to take an online class (basically summer school) from 12-2:30.
i'm only going to get to see the rest of the tip work. :(
I'll have to finish watching it later, but already it seems like the basic 9 would makle a great light camp knife!
:D
good stuff.
thanks noss.

[Not too bad, man]

Cool!!!! Thanks Will and of course, Noss. :cool:

[eatingmuchface]

scratch that.
there was an error downloading my course.
looks like I can watch it after all.
:D

[eatingmuchface]

wow!
great test noss.
(as always)
def. a tough functional knife.
at a more reasonable price too.

actually, M-INFI reacts a little more like sr77.
cool.
:D

[338 Stalker]

Bussekin family of knives, what can I say. They ALL look to be one of the toughest units getting around!!!
As always Noss, great review ;)

[will york]

Noss, you ARE the man. What a whale of a test! It gave me all the info I was hoping for on M-INFI compared with INFI and other blade steels. I’m really glad I sent you the knife, and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the work and thought you put into the testing.

I’m really impressed with how the M-INFI blade on the B9 compared with standard INFI. It’s evident that INFI has an almost supernatural ability to resist both chipping and denting—or any kind of deflection—at the edge, no matter what was thrown at it. You’ve proven that the M-INFI is not as strong, in terms of resisting deflection and denting, or as tough, in terms of resisting chipping and breakage from flex. That said, compared with anything else I’ve seen, M-INFI is one hell of a blade steel.

I went back and looked at your testing of the edge on the Scrapper 6 during the concrete chopping and hammering through concrete tests, and it looks like to me the edge on the Scrapper 6 was dented and chewed up much more on the concrete than the B9 edge after the same test. Also, the B9 went through the mild steel bar three times with no apparent effect on the edge, while the Scrapper 6 suffered a tear-out of the edge in the same test. It took the steel tubing to finally tear into the edge on the B9, and the tears stopped just above the edge bevel.

So to me it looks like the M-INFI comes in somewhere between SR77 and INFI in terms of toughness and strength.

Does that sound accurate to you, Noss?

[eatingmuchface]

thats just what I was thinking Will york.
:D

[vvk]

Great test. The way Noss admited his mistake and went on to correct it shows some class. I would give the knife 5 1/2 rating due to the chipping and mistake or no mistake the knife broke so that should be somehow reflected in the final score.

[Noss]

Thanks everyone. Glad you enjoyed it.


Will: Thanks. Yeah that is about the way I see it. The Scrapper 6 had suffered a fair amount of edge damage but still held together. I used a different concrete during that test. I don't have any more of it to use but I did use it for the CS GI tanto test also. You may want to watch that test if you have not for a comparison. I did use a chunk of it with bid rock during the FFBM test also. However you look at it. Busse family blades have faired the best an dominate all the knives in the toughness category but there have also been some very good competitors for low prices also. M-INFI is a great steel. How much did they go for when new ?



vvk: Thanks man. Any knife declared a survivor automatically gets a 6. The Scrapper 6 had some edge damage as well. The Busse FFBM got through everything in one piece with no chipping or any loss of parts. It went for the bonus the tubing an was awarded the 7 based on the fact that it was all together at the end until the break. I have never had a knife go that far an stay 100 percent together except for the CS machete. I didn't give the machete a 7 because there was a strength difference between the FFBM an machete in favor of the FFBM.

I guess I need to separate the different blades into different groups knives,Machetes,axes to help avoid any confusion.

[itxploded]

#7 and #8 are no longer available

[Noss]

They are there. Refresh the page. You Tube is just acting up.

[Noss]

Will: I'll send it back to you here in a few days. So you can look it over in person.

[jackmcmanus21]

videos work alright here

[will york]

Busse family blades have faired the best and dominate all the knives in the toughness category but there have also been some very good competitors for low prices also. M-INFI is a great steel. How much did they go for when new?

Noss,

As I recall, in the late 90’s the retail price on a Basic 9 was a little over $200, and you could find them on discount websites for about $185 or so. Basic 7 was about $10-20 less and B5's you could buy for around $150—heckuva deal.

Taking the knives to destruction tells us which is ultimately the toughest and strongest, which I think is the only reason you need for justifying the importance of destruction tests. I also think it’s interesting to look at the loss of function overall experienced with each of the three Busse family knives--the Scrapper 6, the FFBM and the B9—at the end of the edge testing on concrete. At that point, these knives had done pretty much everything you would rely on a knife to do and then some. If you look at the three knives at that point, the handles on the FFBM have come loose to the point where lack of tang support requires heavy gloves for continued hard use. The edge of the Scrapper 6 has been chewed up to the point where it would have to be put on a grinder to restore the edge. But the Basic 9’s edge could have been filed back into usable condition in a few minutes, none the worse for wear, and the comfortable Res-C handle was still working fine. At least that’s the way it looks to me from the videos.

And the B9 is so much lighter and more packable at 15 oz. than an FFBM at over 2 lbs., or even a standard combat-grade FBM at 1 lb. 10 oz. All-in-all, if I were headed into a back-country survival situation I still think I’d choose a lightweight, packable Basic design with Res-C handles and M-INFI over any other option currently available. In my mind, until and unless they cure the flared-tube handle fastener durability issue, there is no more reliable hard-use knife design on the planet than the Basic line.

I will say this: If Busse ever offers a knife with the Basic design and Res-C handle, upgraded to INFI blade steel, I would be buying large multiples of every available configuration they put out.

[eatingmuchface]

I dopn't thienk the Busse handle will come off during normal use.
if they do, Busse will make it right.
and it probably wopn't happen again.

although the fbm is a heavier design and I just freaking LOVE res-c.
:D
I would def. say it is a very practical design.

also will york, what do you plan on doing with the pieces?
I don't know if noss will want them back, but I only ask because the basic's are really rare and maybe you would want it back.

[will york]

I dopn't thienk the Busse handle will come off during normal use.
if they do, Busse will make it right.
and it probably wopn't happen again.

although the fbm is a heavier design and I just freaking LOVE res-c.
:D
I would def. say it is a very practical design.

also will york, what do you plan on doing with the pieces?
I don't know if noss will want them back, but I only ask because the basic's are really rare and maybe you would want it back.

I agree--Busse's warranty is as good as it gets. I just think the hardest part of the knife's design is getting the blade right. They've done that--might as well make the handle as good as the blade in terms of durability. Jerry Busse is indisputably a genius, and I think one of these days he'll re-evaluate the handle design and come up with something that will knock our socks off in that area.


...yeah, I'll keep the B9 pieces. I'd like to examine the breaks and also have the pieces to measure against other knives. For example, on the edge bevel thicknesses, I know that there is a lot of variation model-to-model which has a lot to do with cutting efficiency vs durability. The edge on the B9 may not have seemed as strong as on the FFBM, and that may well have been a steel issue comparing M-INFI to INFI, but the edge bevel on the FFBM is also thicker. I have the following models in my collection, which I have mic'd with a caliper at the top of the edge bevels and got the following edge thicknesses:

FFBM .065"
Scrapper 6 .055"
Smooth-coated Basic 9 .050"

Interestingly, Jerry Busse did a re-design of the grinds and edge thicknesses on the Basic models when he went from a smooth blade coating to a crinkle coat. I have two of the crinkle-coat Basic 9's that mic out at about .070" at the edge bevels--even thicker than the FFBM. The reason I didn't send one of these is that both of mine are pristine and worth quite a few $$$, and I wanted to see what the thinner edge on the smooth-coat B9 would do in the tests. Obviously, it is a very efficient cutter/chopper, taking deep bites on the wood, and still held up pretty well on the heavy material impacts. But the crinkle-coat Basics, including the B9's, B7's and B5's, are thicker and MUCH stronger at the edge, and I'm sure would be even more impressive in durability testing. As you can see, I'm a little O/C when it comes to blade performance.

[eatingmuchface]

hmmm very cool.
noss you just have to do a fehrman.
I heard they are ground at about .025" thick at the edge though.
alot thinner than the busse.
I wonder how that would whold up?
some people say Busse's couldn't handle and edge that thin.

here is the review I was reading on them...all I've been hearing latley is busse vs fehrman crap, so i'd like to see one tested BTW.
:D

here is an old thread where cliff had an edge ripple?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327674

[will york]

I'd love to see Noss work out on a CPM 3V blade, too. Three different well-respected makers have told me they've experienced ductility issues with 3V blades. Seems once the steel has been flexed or deflected past a certain point, it can permanently lose rigidity. I know other makers who swear by the steel's toughness. Would be very interesting to get to the bottom of that question.

[Tac45]

Another magnificent test Noss. Thanks for your time and effort.

Thanks Will for donating the blade.

The Busse family of knives are certainly the most impressive performers.

[eatingmuchface]

well, I know the fehrman tested has a really thin edge...
that might have been part of it.
:D

I think a busse would have just got a dent/nic in the edge, not rippled.

[Not too bad, man]

That was an awesome D test!:cool: Great info too will york, and thanks again for the donation. :)

[will york]

To all who have so graciously thanked me for the donation of the B9, it was my pleasure to see Noss put it through its paces and thoroughly worth the sacrifice, and all of you are most welcome. Very nice crowd here.

[Macgregor]

Danke shon Herr York.

[Noss]

Noss,

As I recall, in the late 90’s the retail price on a Basic 9 was a little over $200, and you could find them on discount websites for about $185 or so. Basic 7 was about $10-20 less and B5's you could buy for around $150—heckuva deal.

Taking the knives to destruction tells us which is ultimately the toughest and strongest, which I think is the only reason you need for justifying the importance of destruction tests. I also think it’s interesting to look at the loss of function overall experienced with each of the three Busse family knives--the Scrapper 6, the FFBM and the B9—at the end of the edge testing on concrete. At that point, these knives had done pretty much everything you would rely on a knife to do and then some. If you look at the three knives at that point, the handles on the FFBM have come loose to the point where lack of tang support requires heavy gloves for continued hard use. The edge of the Scrapper 6 has been chewed up to the point where it would have to be put on a grinder to restore the edge. But the Basic 9’s edge could have been filed back into usable condition in a few minutes, none the worse for wear, and the comfortable Res-C handle was still working fine. At least that’s the way it looks to me from the videos.

And the B9 is so much lighter and more packable at 15 oz. than an FFBM at over 2 lbs., or even a standard combat-grade FBM at 1 lb. 10 oz. All-in-all, if I were headed into a back-country survival situation I still think I’d choose a lightweight, packable Basic design with Res-C handles and M-INFI over any other option currently available. In my mind, until and unless they cure the flared-tube handle fastener durability issue, there is no more reliable hard-use knife design on the planet than the Basic line.

I will say this: If Busse ever offers a knife with the Basic design and Res-C handle, upgraded to INFI blade steel, I would be buying large multiples of every available configuration they put out.





The Res-c handles are plenty durable and comfortable. They can take a beating an still work fine even if damaged. The handle is still very secure on the knife after the beating it was giving.

[kurodrago]

will york, thanks for the donation:)
Nice, Noss! as always. Really strong characteristics of a good steel. Too many errors, too many details reviewed can increase suspicions"in the simple minds"!?

Said that: damn I want a BUSSE soon:eek:

[Gman1128]

Thanks for the awesome test Noss and Will.

I was very impressed with the Basic 9, although i was suprised that the tip broke in the flex test. Wasn't expecting that (Perhaps I've been spoiled from watching the FBM test:D)

All in all, it is still almost indestructable and would make a perfect large camp knife

[dingyu1980]

i have a question to ask you , man noss
is there any differences between the fffbm and fbml( limit edition )?
i fond that the prices of them are various widely!

[Gman1128]

I believe the only difference is the FFBM has a saber grind while the FBMLE has a full flat grind and a satin finish. This also makes the FBMLE weigh slightly less and alot more expensive.

[dingyu1980]

ok ,thanks gman1128
i know you in the old forum , right?
you are sweetheart

[will york]

The Res-c handles are plenty durable and comfortable. They can take a beating an still work fine even if damaged. The handle is still very secure on the knife after the beating it was giving.

Got the pieces back today--thanks again, Noss. I can NOT believe how comfortable and stable the handle is on this thing after going through hell and back. Perfectly usable and comfortable, even bare handed. Also nice to see how even the grain structure is in cross section at the breaks--that's some very fine steel.

[Noss]

Will: Cool. Glad you got it back. Yeah the handles still work fine even after being damaged. it's tough material it's not as tough as G-10 but since it is molded all the way around the tang it stays in place.

[Paul The Brit]

Noss great test! I own a Basic 7 smooth coat and your test has shown that it can keep up with my S6.. Great news indeed! Now my S6 can expect a quieter life and my (going to be a USER) Basic 7 can earn it's keep.

Thanks for all the tests you have posted.. There is so much BS out there from certain makers it's great to really see what to buy for when you REALLY NEED that knife you carry..

As this is my first post here (normally KF or The Yard) "Hello everyone!" :D

[foxyrick]

Fantastic test Noss, thanks, and thanks Will York for providing the sacrifice!

I don't have any Basics, but have often wondered about the performance compared to infi. Now I'm going to have to try even harder to pick up a Basic or two. I like my rubber handled Fallknivens and always wanted to try a Basic 7 or 9 to see how they compared.

Thanks!