My Emerson. Have you heard of this?

[The Tourist]

(Moderators, move this if I have placed it in the wrong section.)

I like to test EDCs in the 'real world,' but even then I am pretty careful with my toys. I had something happen, and I don't know if its an HT issue, a bad fit at the factory or something that I have unkowingly done.

I'm a big Emerson fan. I buy their products not because I am under the illusion that I am going to become a secret sec-ops mercenary, but certain EDCs I utilize might have to lead hard lives on the highway. I might get caught in hours of rainstorms. The knife might be my only tool at that moment. I may even eat with the thing.

That said, I have been using a CQC-16, and I think it's a great knife for my current lifestyle.

One thing up front, I seldom (if ever) open the knife with its Wave feature. I roll mine open with my thumb, and never snap it doing that.

I opened the knife a few days ago and noticed that the liner lock position was rapidly wearing across the bottom of the blade blank--that, or the blade was rapidly wearing on the titanium liner. I've owned plenty of Emersons, and the locking engagement doesn't seem to move a bit. And certainly not in only a few months. Yikes, I don't even have any cosmetic blemishes on this particular knife.

I called the company, got instructions on customer service (because I've never had to use them before) and shipped off the knife.

Strangely, I feel like I "did something." The woman on the telephone told me that while the pieces are initially machine made, the fitting is done by hand. For Emerson, that also means the finished knife gets an in-house Q/C. And I do not remember the liner in its present position when it was new.

I would like to think I got an oddball. Your take on this (?)

[LoganSackett]

Does the blade wobble a bit more than normal when open and locked? I had that happen to me with a Kershaw, but I accidentally dropped the knife on concrete from a ladder, so that's understandable.

I expect Emerson to take care of it. They are a reputable company.

[The Tourist]

wobble...I expect Emerson to take care of it. They are a reputable company.

Oh, I know that Emerson will repair it. If I thought anything else I would have called Blue Ridge and just had the thing replaced. I'm hoping that this is just a minor issue, and maybe the liner might have to be replaced.

There is no wobble. The blade blank is fitted at a slight angle so the any possible wear will let the liner "walk" across this angle and lock up snug.

My issue is the speed at which the fitted parts seem to be aging.

For example, I bought my Strider SnG when they first came out. They have a very thick liner lock, and the titanium liner is still only half-engaged on the blade--like the day I bought it.

Something is amiss.

[Madnumforce]

I've heard things about the titanium reacting very different than steel. It seems it wears more because of adherence, and that's exactly the kind of wear occuring in a liner lock. We have to keep in mind that while steel have been very widely used for quite a long time, use of titanium is relatively recent. Science is much more advanced than even 50 years ago, but we still have much to learn on new materials. That's why I don't get the interest of using titanium on knives: it is still very expansive, and not as good as steel. It's just a marketing trend.

[The Tourist]

You might be onto something. This could be as simple as a HT problem.

Most of the knives I have use titanium as liner-lock material, and there seems to be no problem--until now.

My guess is that I just got a bad one.

[cookie_monster]

Yeah, I read a couple of posts when googling about Emerson's and their liner locks. It's not just Emerson, but IIRC rather liner locks in general and the material of the liner. Something along the line of the titanium liner is harder (or softer) than the steel of the blade and therefore one or the other wears (can't recall which, might have it backwards) and then it isn't as secure. I was gonna get a CQC-8, but I ended up coughing up more dough for something I like better that has a framelock.

BTW what's HT stand for?

[Madnumforce]

HT is for Heat Treatment. I may have an answer to the wear of this liner lock: maximum titanium hardness (and only some very special alloys) is in the low 40' HRC range, and most of the time it's around 35HRC. You can easily understand that when it rubs againt a 60+HRC blade, it wears fast, especially if the grinding of the blade "slope" where the liner rest have not been perfectly perpendicular, but with a slight angle, so that the micro waves due to the grit of the abrasive belt, or due to the mill, act as a file.

[The Tourist]

I have numerous frame-lock style hard use knives. None of them has even shown the slightest sign of wear or wobble.

As for a lock-backs, one of the worse disappointments in the cutlery industry was the Chinook. In an ironic twist, that knife was co-designed by a professional "knife fighter" and it still had wobble problems until they redesigned it into the Chinook II.

In other words, a lock is a moving part, constantly rubbing on other surfaces. There will always be "wear issues."

However, there is a very solid reason to use titanium. It has the quality of "affinity" for other metals. I'm not a metallurgist, but this property makes it 'stick' to metals, and that is a very good design angle for a locking mechanism.

This is a fun debate, and we'll see what the customer service department at Emerson finds out.

[Madnumforce]

No, that's not at all an interesting propriety. Because this "sticking" effect leads to rapid wear, especially when there is such a hardness difference. And in fact, the blade "slope" angle is so obtuse (if the knife is well made) that there is no chance the liner could slip and disengage. At least, if you would like a liner lock to never disengage, or to double the load under which it does (and make it reach levels no one could make achieve even the most extreme abuse, as it's already almost impossible to disengage a steel liner just with a load on the blade), then buy a fixed. No lock can match a fixed, whatever you pay for and the materials you use.

[The Tourist]

Because this "sticking" effect leads to rapid wear.

Oh, I agree. Sometimes it's necessary.

Stainless automatic pistols are sometimes constructed of dissimilar alloys. Even the tiny screws on scope mounts are deliberately designed to be soft, so the "cheapest" part breaks first.

If some alloys and parts, especially those that "rubbed," were allowed to slide continuous on each other they would gall. Essentially tearing out little bites.

My thighs are stonger than my inseams. I like it that way!:D

[Madnumforce]

Sometime it is, but not in this case, not on the liner surface that locks the blade. It's quite the opposite, it's a critical part which have to be tough and resistant. Just as the bolt lugs on the Mauser 98 locking mechanism, for exemple, or the floor beams in a house. Mechanically, we can't allow it to fail. At least, not just because of normal use wear.

The use of titanium in knives, at least with the present state of technology, is just a "taktikewl" trend. It's more expensive and less adapted than steel both as blade and as liner. The negligible weight gain isn't a counterpart worth of any consideration. Or if it's so important, make the liner lock out of steel, but the other liner out of titanium, and skeletonized.

[The Tourist]

Hmmm. I'd rather have the titanium, but for personal reasons.

(First, let's address the blade portion. I like high carbon low chromium steels--except for my Myerchins. I'm willing to wipe them down with a Tuff-Cloth periodically.)

The other aspect is simply corrosion. For any part of the folder that is not the blade, follow-up maintenance is just a liability. The knife might reside in a sweaty August pocket, or get drenched in a freak thunderstorm when I'm stuck on the slab. In that case, titanium is the ticket. I cannot guarantee I will get at the knife right away--what if I'm on vacation?

But there's a bigger issue here. You and I love knives. That maintenance, a little oil, the edge, making sure the clip screws are tight, etc., is fun for us.

For example, with my CQC-16 in the shop, I needed a fill-in EDC. I went to fetch my Strider SnG, and really couldn't remember when I had polished the edge, put Tuff-Glide in the pivot or simply washed the thing. I spent an enjoyable two hours working on the SnG while I talked to my friend in Wyoming on the ear-piece.

And let's face it, had you been in my kitchen you'd of had a blast picking through the EDCs, getting your knife polished, or perhaps refining your own edge with the tons of tools available. You would not have described the evening as 'work,' no more than if I had sat out in my garage with friends going over our bikes and telling stories.