Ka-Bar D2 Extreme Video Destruction Test Completed

[Noss]

This test was made possible courtesy of m i k e. Thanks :)

Quick summary:
The knife was on the dull side when I received it. I quickly put an edge back on it.

Cutting: It peeled the apple very easy. I cut some 10,000 lb webbing. It took a little effort with the edge I gave it. The serrations work very well on the Ka-Bar D2

Chopping: Took some effort to do this.

Batoning: Easy for the Ka-Bar D2

Tip work: No problems digging a hole in the 2x4. The tip broke during the sheet metal stabs.

Hammer impacts: The Ka-Bar D2 took it all. Wood an concrete.

Concrete again: I hammered on the but and drove the tip into a concrete brick. During this I broke the Tang/but clean off. This was disappointing.

Body Weight test: In the first position in the holder I stood on the handle once bounced. stepped off repeated this and the blade broke.

End of test.

Overall: The Ka-Bar D2 did well. Ka-Bar's D2 held up very well to the hammer an the concrete. I had one chip on the serrations during this. I wasn't sure how D2 would perform under this type of stress but it came through for the most part. I was able to work an edge onto the knife very easy using a course DMT stone. It did much better than the USMC Ka-Bar tested a while back.

There is one more video test I'm going to do. This is some wood impact on top of the tang.I still have enough knife for this test. I want to see if the tang will bend like the USMC.I missed the opportunity during test because the batoning was very easy. Easier than I wanted.


The videos are in 5 parts.

Enjoy the videos. They were made for you. :)

Part 1
6xRdGJtEr5U

Part 2
56BoMEZH6_g

Part 3
bceXNbySWuY

Part 4
SnVvA7Qnvd0

Part 5
6fbYbg0v-Eo

Part 6 Follow up
c7SUwD-cP4E

[Noss]

Fixed the videos. They should work now.


I just got back in from the extra tang test. I placed the remaining portion of the knife in the vice and hit the hell out of it with a wooden baton. I spit the grip but failed to bend or damage the tang. So this would not have factored in during the initial test.

I'll have the video up shortly.

[Gman1128]

I don't know if this should be posted here or in the support section but part 4 seems to be missing the last two minutes of video where you did the body weight test because it ends with the knife still together and in part 5 it is broken.

Thanks for the test like always it was awesome!!
It did better then I thought. I figured D2 would be more brittle and chip like crazy on the concrete.

[Noss]

Hold on. I'm taking it off line. to fix this problem.

[Noss]

I'm repairing part 5. I will have it up in a about 30 minuets. Sorry for the problem.

[Gman1128]

Thanks for the quick fix, from the conclusion i can piece together what happened but it is going to be much more fun watching it!!

Also thank you m i k e for donating the knife and providing us with entertainment and lots of information.

[Noss]

Ok Part 5 is fixed.

[xxo]

Thanks for the test Noss!

Did you try the side impact/wack-the-handle-with-the-hammer-test with what's left of the tang in the vise?

[338 Stalker]

Nice work Mike & Noss.

Not my choice of knife but never the less, not a bad option either.

[will york]

Nice work, Noss. Not too bad for D2--edge toughness looked decent on the concrete, esp. for a tool steel.

Thanks again for another thorough job--and thanks to Mike for the donation.

[Noss]

Part 6 is now up. check first post of this thread.


Your welcome men.

xxo: No I didn't but I can an will for you. Give me a day or so to do this.


338 Stalker: Not my first choice either. I don't use many of my knives of this size unless they are choppers. Since this is mainly what I do an like to do, When I go camping. Still it's not bad it just isn't my style.


Will: Ka-bars D2 held up well to things that I had questions about. Depending on what one is lead to believe on the forums about D2 being brittle. This wasn't the case here when I applied the hammer an used it on the concrete. It responded well. I was disappointed about the but breaking off so easy. Since it had a very nice hammering surface but it was weak at this location. So I wouldn't be using it to hammer on things that required a lot of force an hard impact.

[vvk]

Nice work, Noss. Not too bad for D2--edge toughness looked decent on the concrete, esp. for a tool steel.

Thanks again for another thorough job--and thanks to Mike for the donation.

Will, what do you mean by "especially for a tool steel"? I thought the tool steel is supposed to be super tough. Am I missing s/g?

Noss
Thanks. Great test and follow up. The only thing I hope you can add in the future is the phone-book penetration test as different knives penetration characteristics could be compared better by counting the pages the tip went through. For example I was surprised to find out that my Hayes tomahawk has bested all of my knives on this test.

I was begging you for this test for a long time and I am even willing to send you a fee bucks so you can buy a couple of old phone-books.

[sharpshooter996]

Just finished watching the test. Nice work again Noss. And Mike thank you for your donation, it is appreciated.

The D2 Extreme faired a little better than i would have bet. You can see its obvious week points by its thin tip, and lackluster attachment of butt cap. Too bad it was not one forged piece. And I still dont understand why some manufactures put such thin tips on their blades. Do they not expect people to get a little rough with them at times. Especially a knife that is geared towards military use.

The one plus, was the ability of Ka-Bar's D2 to take some pretty hefty blade hits and not chip out. I wish the Scrap yard preformed this well here.

[Thecarotidpulse]

Yeah overall I was pretty impressed! No chipping or major blunting, pretty good!

About the Butt: what would you say the cap was made of? Here's the theory, knife impacts on the side of a metallic butt would create more leverage directly at the point where the cap connects to the tang... Multiplying the force applied significantly... A Side impacts on tang with mallet would be a nice test to add to see just how strong the tang is.

Not too surprised of it failing the body weight test.. it's a very hard steel after all! Noss, when you dug into the 2x4 did you feel it bend in your hand a lot? or was it very stiff?

Anyway thanks for the test, honestly I'm rather happy with the outcome... Goo kabar - might buy this one for oh... show =D

[Leigh]

Not sure about the D2 version but years ago I recall reading the K-Bar Next Generation specs about the butt and guard to be made of "sintered metal" (whatever that is). Maybe that was the cause of the separation failure?

[jackmcmanus21]

I wish it had a stronger tip

[will york]

Will, what do you mean by "especially for a tool steel"? I thought the tool steel is supposed to be super tough. Am I missing s/g?


vvk--

Here is my basic layman's understanding, from what I've read over the years:

"Tool steels" are steels that are used in tooling other metals and as such have to be hard enough and hold an edge well enough to sustain an edge while cutting other metals. These kinds of steels typically go into things like bits and dies, which offer stout support behind the edge, and as such are not subject to much deflection or resulting breakage. When you take that kind of steel and use it in a knife blade, depending on how hard you leave it after the heat treatment, how thin and long the blade is, and how thin the edge is ground, it may take enough deflection in one or more of these areas during use that failure will be experienced in the form of breaking, cracking or chipping.

"Spring steels" such as the 5160 series steels used in automobile springs and others such as the 1055-1095 range of alloys, are used in circumstances where the steel is expected to deflect and return to finished form without breaking--hence the term "spring". These steels are more often used in large knife blades which are expected to see hard use such as heavy impacts and prying, and failure is expected to come in the form of denting or rolling, and possibly bending, but not fracturing.

When a steel blade fails by denting, rolling or taking a bend, it can usually be restored and used. These qualities are typical of "tough" steels. When a blade fails by breaking, grossly chipping out or cracking, it's less likely to be of any further use. A blade may be "strong" in terms of resisting deflection, but be more subject to gross failures of this type.

The term "toughness" is typically used to describe that quality in steel which allows it to bend, roll or dent rather than breaking. The term "strength" is used to describe that quality in steel which allows it to resist deflection, and is usually associated with hardness. Hardness is also typically associated with wear resistance and edge retention.

Tool steels have to be very strong and hard, in order to stand up to the task of cutting other steels over and over again as bits and dies. But when used in a thin knife blade, they may have a tendency to fracture under high impact or lateral loads. Spring steels have to be very tough in order not to fail when they are deflected, but they may fail by being too much on the soft side, resulting in taking a permanent bend, indenting or rolling, or not holding an edge as well as tool steels.

Obviously, the optimal steel for a given knife blade is that steel which allows the best balance of toughness and strength, given the intended use of the blade and its exposure to stresses that may tend to make it fail. D2, falling into the tool steel class, can be left hard and will exhibit strength and excellent edge holding, but may fail by cracking, chipping or breaking. It seems to me that the performance of the D2 Kabar is the result of a very well-balanced heat treat protocol, leaving the steel tough enough to resist chipping at the edge while still retaining enough strength to resist being dented or rolled much--to keep it from being "chewed up" is the phrase that comes to mind, especially on things like concrete.

This is off the top of my head, and may draw some suggested changes or corrections by other forum members who are welcome to do so, but as I said it represents my basic understanding of the terms.

[Thecarotidpulse]

Textbook answer will, nice.

[Not too bad, man]

Thanks Noss and m i k e! :rockon:

I thought the knife performed very well. And great post will york, that makes sense about the heat treat Kabar is using on their D2.

[vvk]

vvk--

Here is my basic layman's understanding, from what I've read over the years:

"Tool steels" are steels that are used in tooling other metals and as such have to be hard enough and hold an edge well enough to sustain an edge while cutting other metals. These kinds of steels typically go into things like bits and dies, which offer stout support behind the edge, and as such are not subject to much deflection or resulting breakage. When you take that kind of steel and use it in a knife blade, depending on how hard you leave it after the heat treatment, how thin and long the blade is, and how thin the edge is ground, it may take enough deflection in one or more of these areas during use that failure will be experienced in the form of breaking, cracking or chipping.

"Spring steels" such as the 5160 series steels used in automobile springs and others such as the 1055-1095 range of alloys, are used in circumstances where the steel is expected to deflect and return to finished form without breaking--hence the term "spring". These steels are more often used in large knife blades which are expected to see hard use such as heavy impacts and prying, and failure is expected to come in the form of denting or rolling, and possibly bending, but not fracturing.

When a steel blade fails by denting, rolling or taking a bend, it can usually be restored and used. These qualities are typical of "tough" steels. When a blade fails by breaking, grossly chipping out or cracking, it's less likely to be of any further use. A blade may be "strong" in terms of resisting deflection, but be more subject to gross failures of this type.

The term "toughness" is typically used to describe that quality in steel which allows it to bend, roll or dent rather than breaking. The term "strength" is used to describe that quality in steel which allows it to resist deflection, and is usually associated with hardness. Hardness is also typically associated with wear resistance and edge retention.

Tool steels have to be very strong and hard, in order to stand up to the task of cutting other steels over and over again as bits and dies. But when used in a thin knife blade, they may have a tendency to fracture under high impact or lateral loads. Spring steels have to be very tough in order not to fail when they are deflected, but they may fail by being too much on the soft side, resulting in taking a permanent bend, indenting or rolling, or not holding an edge as well as tool steels.

Obviously, the optimal steel for a given knife blade is that steel which allows the best balance of toughness and strength, given the intended use of the blade and its exposure to stresses that may tend to make it fail. D2, falling into the tool steel class, can be left hard and will exhibit strength and excellent edge holding, but may fail by cracking, chipping or breaking. It seems to me that the performance of the D2 Kabar is the result of a very well-balanced heat treat protocol, leaving the steel tough enough to resist chipping at the edge while still retaining enough strength to resist being dented or rolled much--to keep it from being "chewed up" is the phrase that comes to mind, especially on things like concrete.

This is off the top of my head, and may draw some suggested changes or corrections by other forum members who are welcome to do so, but as I said it represents my basic understanding of the terms.

Will
Thanks. Excellent explanation. Are you sure you are not Cliff Stamp posting under disguise? :)

[will york]

Will
Thanks. Excellent explanation. Are you sure you are not Cliff Stamp posting under disguise? :)

Nah, Cliff thinks he knows everything about knives. I actually do.

Seriously, I’m just another guy who is fascinated by blades and what makes them work—much like you, probably. I do appreciate the chance to restate what I’ve learned about any aspect of knives, so I can “say it out loud” and see if it still makes sense to me. Sometimes by doing that, new questions are raised either in my own mind or by the challenges or instructions of others who know a lot more than I do. So I appreciated your question, giving me a chance to restate my understanding of toughness and strength. Didn’t sound too bad after all, I guess. If anyone else got anything out of it, that’s great.

By the way, I’ve learned more from Cliff about blades than from any other one person. He has guts, insight, integrity and tons of persistence, plus education, and has provided a very important objective view to the knife-consuming public in my opinion. Reminds me of the guy who makes all THIS possible.

I’m concerned that Cliff may have become jaded by all the gratuitous crap dumped on him over the years, and I’m sorry that his voice has been muted somewhat. I hope Noss’s skin is thick enough to let that kind of BS roll off his back like water off a duck—he’s sure to need some thick skin if he stays in this line of work for very long.

Best to all,
will

[Tac45]

Another awsome production. Thanks Noss and the Effing Cameraman. Thanks for the blade Mike. I agree with Cartoid about the butt. I think having the overhang where the lanyard hole probably aided in the butt coming off. The butt seems to have held on the other Kabars tested.

I was surprised at the D2 performance. I imagined it would have broke when hit with the mallet giving that the blade is thin, long and only 3/16th thick and made of what is considered a brittle steel by others on other forums. Seems some of those who speak so much authority on this are just guessing. Probably based on steel spec sheet reading. Great that there is someone actually testing the breaking point. Guess Kabar got the heat treat right.

I have one of these. It is fairly new. Out of the box the thing is very sharp. Mine will easily pop hair.

Again well done on the test.

[Magnum22]

he didn't say anything about carbide fracture, austenite absorption, grain structure, or impurities.

not cliff.

[Noss]

I was begging you for this test for a long time and I am even willing to send you a fee bucks so you can buy a couple of old phone-books.


I'll see about adding this test. You have sent me enough money already. :thumb:


Thecarotidpulse: Ka-Bar lists the butt an guard made of 1095 carbon steel.


Your welcome everyone.

[Noss]

Nah, I hope Noss’s skin is thick enough to let that kind of BS roll off his back like water off a duck—he’s sure to need some thick skin if he stays in this line of work for very long.


The critics don't bother me. Or I would have gave in to them a long time ago an walked away. I'll always have them. It's just part of the game. I have read just about every criticism they can muster up. Many times I just laugh at what they focus on during the tests. From the color of my gloves etc, etc, etc. They always find something to bitch about.

I have done field tests an chopping tests on the site an many bitch about them as well. So the argument many make about if you just did field tests an things other then the D-tests an people would not complain is not true.

No matter what I do or what anyone else does people will always complain about something.

[Tac45]

Noss perhaps the critics are right. I mean really. Those gloves. Olive is sooo yesterday. Sand is the new olive. It says I'm in the now. All the rage from Malibou to Kandahar. The mask. Oh don't get me started. Really. Sure it may be fine on some outdoorsy adventure type paint fest. But ater five. I don't think so. No Masquerade for you. May I suggest something in cloth. Maybe a fine Scarlet silk.

Oh God what have I written....................

[will york]

The critics don't bother me...It's just part of the game...


Man, I agree 1000%, and that's the only attitude to have. I'm sure it can still get old just answering all the silly BS, though. I like your style when it comes to dealing with it--I've seen several posts you've made in reply to that kind of nonsense, and you're always polite and stick to the facts--very even-handed. But still, it's gotta get old when the only agenda you have is trying to find out just how much a blade can take, and then sharing your work with other knife enthusiasts for free.

I do think that maintaining your own website and forums is a great idea to keep the focus where you intend it.

Here's to you, pard--

thanks again,
will

[Thecarotidpulse]

I agree with Tac,

Look at the colour of Noss's boots, and pants ususally... You got Tan on the bottom and green on the top? I mean talking about colours that are NOT complimentary....

How about Tan boots/pants and a scarlet tunic, with maybe an executionners hood? It'd be appropriate.. come on...knife executionner...

[will york]

... with maybe an executionners hood? It'd be appropriate...

That's a nice image, but I'd hate to see him lose the mask. It's become part of his signature. Just the fact that it gets under so many peoples' skin makes me laugh every time I see a post condemning him for it on one of the other forums. Gotta keep the mask, Noss--seriously. :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Noss]

Ok men. I'll try an color coordinate my outfit. How about this ?

http://www.tailored.com.au/uploaded_images/superhero-792453.jpg





Will: Thanks for the kind words. I think the mask has become a test all of it's own. It lets me see who focuses on it or on the knives. It's funny an interesting to read all the comments one it. It adds a fun element to the discussion.

[will york]

Ok men. I'll try an color coordinate my outfit. How about this ?



Okay, now...see...that's just wrong.

Jeez, I told you guys to take it easy on the wardrobe advice, but NOOOOOO. You had to get all "What Not To Wear" up in here. So NOW do you see what happens? :D

[Noss]

They asked for change. :D The red an blue goes well together.

[kurodrago]

Not to bad Noss! The handle was a little daunting but not bad at all.
Thanks for the video tests Noss:thumb:
Man I mean Man not think even for a moment to change clothing or masks.:headbang: You look just marvellous:rockon:

[eatingmuchface]

wow.
I'm pretty suprised man.
great test noss, learned alot from this one.
(mostly that half the people that pretend like they know what they're talking about really don't)
:D

[Noss]

kurodrago: Thanks bro. I'll be getting the Tops here soon.


EMF: Yeah. You have to be careful about what you read on the forums. Many people have biased opinions with little or anything to back up what they say. Like the debate between stainless steel an carbon steel for example. Some people come out an say stainless is just plain junk for a fixed blade. This is simply not true. There are many good fixed blades made with stainless steel. Like Mora's an Fallkniven knives an others. Yet some will just bash SS with nonsense opinions void of facts.

[eatingmuchface]

yeah. you do have to be careful what you read.
people just seem to get ideas stuck in their head that when they think about, they really don't know anything about them or have anything to back them up.

I think we all get like that a little bit. (maybe it's just some more than others though)
we may have had a knife of a certain steel break so we think of it in a negative light (even though it could have been the HT) or something like that.

if a week agao someone asked me if d2 was suitable for a fixed blade I probably would have said it would be too brittle, or something like that.
(it's just what i have heard and things like that)
although now I know it can make a good fixed blade.
:D

[will york]

There are many good fixed blades made with stainless steel. Like Mora's an Fallkniven knives an others. Yet some will just bash SS with nonsense opinions void of facts.

You've made some eye-opening comparisons here that prove your case. A2 steel has had a very strong rep as a hard-use knife steel for many years. Busse used it before going to INFI. Phill Hartsfield uses A2 in his customs and has made some very strong claims about it, including one report that a soldier was shot while carrying one of his knives, and the knife stopped/deflected the bullet, saving the man's life.

But anyone who thinks that steel alone tells the whole story only needs to look right here at the comparison between CRK's A2 and Strider's stainless CPM S30V, and the beating the Strider took before failure compared with the relatively minor abuse that broke the CRK. It's also interesting to see how much tougher Strider's CPM S30V blades are than CRK's, as tested in the Green Beret model.

Obviously heat treatment is a huge key to performance--guess that's why Busse knives get a heat treat protocol lasting 40-50 hours, while most knives get less than a tenth of that investment of time in heat treatment. And why Kabar can build a D2 knife that will outperform many others made with reputedly "tougher" steels.

[Noss]

Will: Exactly. The Strider BT S30V did very well compared to the CRK green beret.different knife, different maker, different heat treat. S30V performed well as a hard use knife in regards to the Strider. I anxious to test another makers A2 an see the results. I will also be testing more D2 from other makers.

[will york]

Great stuff, Noss. You're building a body of work here that people will be referring back to for years to come, long after current petty detractors are forgotten.

[Noss]

Will: True, nobody remembers critics since they usually never do anything but talk.

[Thecarotidpulse]

"when you speak in anger, your emotion is remembered but your words are forgotten"

I forget who said this but it's suitable...

[sharpshooter996]

Noss going back to page 3. The new wardrobe you picked out is great. cant wait to see it in the next test. that should help silence your critics. Lol. :D

Ya i have to say i was pretty impressed by the performance of the Ka-bar's D2. I have a Rat-7 in this steel and it has chipped on me a couple of times. Once on wood and the other on a medium light strike in the dirt where i hit a small rock.

I feel bad now, knowing my feelings I have about my rat i foolishly linked this to D2 in general and not about the heat treat. shame on me :(

I will be wiser now in the future. Thanks guys. Noss you see what you are teaching people :rockon: Rock on Brother!!!

[Noss]

sharpshooter996: It would be funny to wear that costume. :D Give them what they want as they say. :thumb: Thanks bro

[Tac45]

Myself and the family have been belted really hard with the flu all week. Havn't felt like doing anything. Popped onto my favourite website and bingo. Instant cheer. Yep that costume pic sure did it.

Tell the truth bro. You have that costume don't you......and......you wear it often.......very often....

It looks great with sneakers. They give the whole thing a classy feel.

[Noss]

Tac45: Sorry to hear you an your family has the flu. Get well bro. :thumb::thumb:

Yep I have that costume an I wear it everywhere I go :D: I sleep in it also. :D Why do you think I need my Glock ?

[Tac45]

Thanks man. I hate seeing the kids sick. Its a real bitch of a flu too.

Hey thats a new knida super hero. Stuff those superpowers. Fill em with lead. Combat Tupperware for the next generation of super dude.

[miro44one]

Ok, I' m back from my vacation, and only just started watching all the new tests, but finished watching this one. The Ka-bar really performed quite well, alot better that I expected it to.Good test :thumb:

[Noss]

Tac45: No the Glock is for my protection. I have been attacked by to many drunk rednecks in that costume. :D


miro44one: Hope you had a great vacation. I need one myself.

[culpeper]

I have one of these still in the box. Dummy me. I took it out and said, "Hey those serrations really look cool" while I lightly rubbed my thumb across it. Fucking thing was scary razor sharp. Cut myself about and 1/8" inch deep before I knew what was happening. That's sharp.