Well, I'm glad all that testing is straightened out

[me2]

Just a rant thread basically, since the ones on BF are locked. Why is it that Noss's tests get hammered, figuratively and literally, when ABS tests are no better, but are applauded and set a standard. Who bends a knife to use it? I dont cut much rope, so that test is out for me. What company or maker would make and market a knife as tough that wouldnt pass the floor drop test? The brass rod test makes sense to me only in the vaguest of terms, since no parameters are defined except the size of the rod, and even this varies from smith to smith. The severity of chopping a 2x4 is definately the way to separate the good from the bad, not. Only blade length, to my knowledge, is specified. Width and thickness play at least as important a role. This goes for the bend test as well.

Disclaimer:
Obviously, the ABS didnt ask me, and they can use whatever they want. However, I imagine many of Noss's detractors point to ABS tests as proof of a good knife, when their tests are no better, in terms of repeatability and subjectiveness, that anything Noss does. I also realize I'm preaching to the choir, and that I've stated support of some of Noss's tests that no one uses in real life in exactly the opposite way that I reference the bend test here. No one that I know uses a knife to cut tube steel. No one I know bends a knife back and forth to use it. That doesnt mean the tests dont give useful information. JHC, why do people get so upset when a $300 knife breaks before a $30 one? The cheaper one is tougher, and I dont need a lab to prove it. Does anyone really think an independent lab will give you any information that will show an error in guessing that spring tempered 1055 is going to be tougher than over tempered, high carbon, high wear stainless, even if its at the same hardness as the 1055? You dont need surveying equipment to find an order of magnitude difference in elevation either, but apparently some of BF cant see it without it.

[The Cameraman]

You are definitely preaching to the choir, my friend, but feel free to preach all you want. The simple fact is, whiners are whiners, pussies are pussies, and the combination of the two, the whiner pussy is quick to cry, piss, and moan about anything and everything. What do they produce?...not a fuckin thing. What do they contribute?...not a mother fuckin thing. And to try to even debate a solid point to them is utterly useless. I tell Noss all the time to just hear Rosie O'Donnell's voice narrating when he reads some little bitch's pissing and moaning on the other forums, and forget about responding.

Over the course of the last year, he has made a tangible contribution to the knife world. He has provided an actual, tangible, reviewable record of his findings when it comes to stress testing knives to failure....and still, they whine, and cry, and piss, and moan.

When you hear the owner of BladeForums actually say, "big deal, the knife didn't react well to being clamped in a vise and hit with a hammer", then you have to know that Rosie O'Donnell is in the building, and the she-male aint going no where. They can watch a video, see a knife break with some hammer impacts into wood, and honestly not see any correlation to toughness when another knife not only handles this stress, but goes on to handle much more.

For me, that about sums it up when it comes to the real draw of Knifetests.com. It's not about watching a knife break when you hit it with a hammer---it's about watching the knife that doesn't break when you hit it with a hammer.......or stand on it while it is clamped..........or pounding the shit out of it until it actually shears through steel tubing.




HUMBLY, THE CAMERAMAN

[sharpshooter996]

Bravo Cameraman, Bravo :thumb:

[Noss]

me2: good points. I think some of them need to read the ABS testing protocols. It is very simple stuff. here is the link for the journeyman performance test. http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ABS_JSTest.htm


Here is link to the master performance test. http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ABS_MSTest.htm

[bel_dad]

Noss bro, I'm amazed to hear ANYONE is bad mouthing your tests! I make it a point to buy all the knives you test that do well, because having watched your tests, I know I have in my hands a knife that won't let me down no matter how bad things get.

I am soon going to be into a position where I will be training and working a USAR (urban search and rescue) dog again, and you can bet your bottom dollar I will be carrying a knife you tested, into some disaster somewhere with my new dog "Spot". Don't know if it will be a hurricane, or an earthquake, or a lost child in the wilderness... but I'll be there, and I'll be betting my life on my dog, and a knife you tested, and I know neither will let me down.

I think your doing a great job mon... Keep up the work, idiots and sheep will always find fault no matter what you do.

bd

[Thecarotidpulse]

I am of the same mind as BD...


Noss already cost me a Gerber LMFII, and a Fallkniven F1, and a SY DFLE on the way soon.

It's thanks to him that I even heard of a lot of these brands...

BD where do you do USAR? I do a lot of work training the Toronto HUSAR people (heavy urban sar) see pics from our big joint exercise online...

[Richard J]

imo, i think that thread done more harm than good by getting everyone rialed up. i thought about starting a similar thread but i changed my mind after thinking it through. i told noss the kind of testing he does is done in what i call layman terms and not in clit stumps style:D. just like the one test to see how much pull it takes to cut thread:rolleyes: i dont care how much pull it takes to cut thread. all i care about is getting it cut. the test noss does are for the average joe to understand. like if someone wants a knife for a specific purpose they can look at the tests noss does and find the best knife to suit their needs without the need of a college education just to decypher the test results.

[Shaolin]

I like Noss's test, keep them coming.

[kurodrago]

Well, I don't know some people really have strange ideas such as Building A Better Knife Test with the asses and imaginations!!! The truth is they don't know what the fuck they are talking about. Microscopic high definition photo on cutting manila rope....they just make me laugh

[Sharp]

I guess one reason to answer your questions is that the ABS is a "respected" society, whereas Noss is an independent tester (with the Cameraman :D ).

Of course more people would "trust" the ABS compared to Noss' test because they are THE ABS.

For me, the ABS testing is good, but it doesn't really show much at all. Chopping 2x4 with a bottom is very easy and it really doesn't say which knife is better. A lot of it also depends on physical strength of the use.

I guarantee that if you use an ABS knife in the woods something bad is gonna happen. 2x4 usually don't use hard wood. Try the knife on some fatwood or oak. Concrete? Something that really does show how the knife will perform under stress.

In fact, why don't we have Noss test an ABS master smith knife?

Also people always have something to bitch about, for instance, I'm gonna bitch and moan that I don't have another FFBM!!! :D

[Shaolin]

I also do not have a FFBM.

[Noss]

It would be interesting to test a ABS makers blade.


I'm gonna bitch and moan that I could not get a NMFBM :D

[Paul The Brit]

You are definitely preaching to the choir, my friend, but feel free to preach all you want. The simple fact is, whiners are whiners, pussies are pussies, and the combination of the two, the whiner pussy is quick to cry, piss, and moan about anything and everything. What do they produce?...not a fuckin thing. What do they contribute?...not a mother fuckin thing. And to try to even debate a solid point to them is utterly useless. I tell Noss all the time to just hear Rosie O'Donnell's voice narrating when he reads some little bitch's pissing and moaning on the other forums, and forget about responding.

Over the course of the last year, he has made a tangible contribution to the knife world. He has provided an actual, tangible, reviewable record of his findings when it comes to stress testing knives to failure....and still, they whine, and cry, and piss, and moan.

When you hear the owner of BladeForums actually say, "big deal, the knife didn't react well to being clamped in a vise and hit with a hammer", then you have to know that Rosie O'Donnell is in the building, and the she-male aint going no where. They can watch a video, see a knife break with some hammer impacts into wood, and honestly not see any correlation to toughness when another knife not only handles this stress, but goes on to handle much more.

For me, that about sums it up when it comes to the real draw of Knifetests.com. It's not about watching a knife break when you hit it with a hammer---it's about watching the knife that doesn't break when you hit it with a hammer.......or stand on it while it is clamped..........or pounding the shit out of it until it actually shears through steel tubing.




HUMBLY, THE CAMERAMAN

LOL, HELL F***** YEAH!! :thumb:

[Sharp]

I'm gonna bitch and moan that I could not get a NMFBM :D


Welcome to the freakin' same boat. :D

[me2]

Zombie Threads Arise!!!! (insert evil necromancer laugh here)

Well you sure stirred up a poop storm. Looking over all the tests and seeing that the vast majority of knives get 4 blades or higher, can anyone offer an opinion on that? It seems that most knives are adequately designed for some fairly rough use, but some are intended for it. Those are the ones that get 6 or 7 blades.

Noss, I dare you to test an ABS MS knife. If it fails for any reason, there would be a perfect shit storm like nothing BF has ever seen. I dont even go to KF. How are they handling your tests? I'm more of the opinion that the tests are fun, and give broad, relative information. Any test taken by itself doesnt mean a whole lot unless the maker has specifically said the knife will take batoning through, oh lets see, how about wood, and it doesnt. However, the tests compared to one another, especially after the rough standardization, provide lots of relative information. Have any knives been donated by the makers, or just individuals? If I ever get off my ass and make my tough knife, be sure I'll send a copy.

[will york]

Noss, I dare you to test an ABS MS knife. If it fails for any reason, there would be a perfect shit storm like nothing BF has ever seen.

It's not that hard to stir up the locals--in fact it has been done. Check out:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257608

Why anyone cares what people like Sharp Phil have to say is beyond me. What a waste of time. I think Noss was being generous to even respond to that thread. As if it would make any difference if Noss' "mask" turned out NOT to be a mask at all but instead a rather basic reconstructed face, and if Noss' legal name actuallly turned out to be Noss. What would change about his credibility if that were his "real" face and Noss were his "real" name?

What could be more transparent than filming the actual tests themselves for all to see? There are many examples of critical review here on these forums--many by Noss himself--in which the possibility is examined that a given test may have represented something that could be misinterpreted. The whole process is recorded on film and then opened up here for public discussion and debate. That whole issue about credibility has no substance on its face.

Bottom Line: You don't get a million hits by filming random acts of violence against little shards of steel. The numbers speak for themselves--value recorded by a camera is measured by box office numbers. Read 'em and--if you're in Sharp Phil's camp--weep. But please don't burden us with your tears. I don't hear the knives crying.

[G. Scott H.]

That's it! I DEMAND to know Noss's true identity! I won't be able to sleep until...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... ;):thumb:

[Noss]

Funny I gave him a response and he locked it. Typical troll technique. "I always get the last word in after I'm losing the argument" :rolleyes:

[Noss]

Zombie Threads Arise!!!! (insert evil necromancer laugh here)

Well you sure stirred up a poop storm. Looking over all the tests and seeing that the vast majority of knives get 4 blades or higher, can anyone offer an opinion on that? It seems that most knives are adequately designed for some fairly rough use, but some are intended for it. Those are the ones that get 6 or 7 blades.

Noss, I dare you to test an ABS MS knife. If it fails for any reason, there would be a perfect shit storm like nothing BF has ever seen. I dont even go to KF. How are they handling your tests? I'm more of the opinion that the tests are fun, and give broad, relative information. Any test taken by itself doesnt mean a whole lot unless the maker has specifically said the knife will take batoning through, oh lets see, how about wood, and it doesnt. However, the tests compared to one another, especially after the rough standardization, provide lots of relative information. Have any knives been donated by the makers, or just individuals? If I ever get off my ass and make my tough knife, be sure I'll send a copy.

I would like to test a ABS blade I'm sure I will get to one someday. If you ever make a tough one I'll be here to test it.

On knife forums it's the same thing as BF if a knife does well they don't bitch about it.

Busse donated the FFBM. Rat cutlery is supposed to donate a few unless something changed. I haven't heard from them and I have not followed up on it.

[G. Scott H.]

The funny thing is I've checked out Phil's site and read some of his articles, and I agree with a lot of what he says, but I just didn't get this one. As someone pointed out (and you confirmed), many of the knifemakers who's stuff you test KNOW who you are. As far as I'm concerned that IS taking responsibility for your actions. What difference does it make if the average guy on the street knows who you are, where you live, etc.? I don't understand his logic in this case. WHo knows, maybe he'll join us and discuss it further. :confused:

[cgeyer]

It's really very simple. Phil is trying to become some kind of internet martial/knife guru. Look at ALL his complaints against Noss. Noss has his own website/forums (as does Phil); Noss is trying to brand himself (Phil was spamming his schlock on BFC and received infractions for it, even leading to a thread where they had to beat it into him that his shamless self promotion of his articles/whatever is SPAM); we don't 'know' who Noss is (we know 'who' Phil is).
This was another shamless act of self promotion by Shit Phil. He is pissed because he is the big published author/WND columnist and NO ONE GIVES A SHIT. Noss is getting all the attention. It's like Phil is Jan Brady...Marsha, Marsha, Marsha (Noss, Noss, Noss).
He is a self aggrandized attention whore who DESERVES an audience, don't you see?
Don't get me started on the High School attitudes on BFC.
[/sarcasm/] So, Noss, quit stealing Shit Phil's thunder! [/sarcasm/]

Chuck

[Noss]

It's not that hard to stir up the locals--in fact it has been done. Check out:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257608

Why anyone cares what people like Sharp Phil have to say is beyond me. What a waste of time. I think Noss was being generous to even respond to that thread. As if it would make any difference if Noss' "mask" turned out NOT to be a mask at all but instead a rather basic reconstructed face, and if Noss' legal name actuallly turned out to be Noss. What would change about his credibility if that were his "real" face and Noss were his "real" name?

What could be more transparent than filming the actual tests themselves for all to see? There are many examples of critical review here on these forums--many by Noss himself--in which the possibility is examined that a given test may have represented something that could be misinterpreted. The whole process is recorded on film and then opened up here for public discussion and debate. That whole issue about credibility has no substance on its face.

Bottom Line: You don't get a million hits by filming random acts of violence against little shards of steel. The numbers speak for themselves--value recorded by a camera is measured by box office numbers. Read 'em and--if you're in Sharp Phil's camp--weep. But please don't burden us with your tears. I don't hear the knives crying.



It wouldn't change anything Phil is just trying to make them think it will. He's trying to get attention for himself. Bottom line is they can think what they want but it doesn't change the outcome of the test. The thread is a fun one though I will admit. The detractors have gone over everything except the test itself. Many people have tried to point out the facts to them but they side step them with nonsense comebacks.
I'm not wasting time with them anymore. No matter what I say or anyone says about the facts they will never give in to them because they have their agenda. :thumbdwn:

[will york]

It wouldn't change anything Phil is just trying to make them think it will. He's trying to get attention for himself. Bottom line is they can think what they want but it doesn't change the outcome of the test. The thread is a fun one though I will admit. The detractors have gone over everything except the test itself. Many people have tried to point out the facts to them but they side step them with nonsense comebacks.
I'm not wasting time with them anymore. No matter what I say or anyone says about the facts they will never give in to them because they have their agenda. :thumbdwn:

The funniest thing to me about these kinds of threads is that while the whiners and self-appointed judges pontificate about their puffed-up issues, the impact of what they're doing is raising public awareness about Noss and this place. I wonder how many viewers here first heard about KnifeTests.com because they were browsing through one of the big forums like BF and saw one of these whiner threads. Noss, you probably should thank Sharp Phil and his ilk for spewing their puffery and ushering in new viewers to your website.

[shmoopiebear]

... Phil Elmore of The Martialist / Pax Baculum?

[Noss]

shmoopiebear: Yes Phil Elmore The Martialist


Will: Yeah these threads do have this affect. I lost count how many 300 post threads are on the forums. I have no problem with people disagreeing with the tests this is life but I'm not going to sit there and take all the BS insults. The funny thing is they expect me to stick around while they do this activity. :rolleyes: If they could talk about it without all the crying and insults I would stick around. I have had some good discussions on the forums about the tests. :thumb: Many times though I feel I just need to hand out diapers.

I'm not however going to call 1-900- dial an insult.:D This was real at one time by the way back before the internet. This had to be the best gimmick I have ever heard of
I mean to pay money to get insulted. How did they sell this business plan to a bank ? :confused:

[will york]

I'm not however going to call 1-900- dial an insult.:D This was real at one time by the way back before the internet. This had to be the best gimmick I have ever heard of I mean to pay money to get insulted. How did they sell this business plan to a bank ? :confused:

I remember that! That's a hilarious observation about selling the idea to a bank. 'course, bankers haven't exactly proven themselves as models of sanity lately.

[G. Scott H.]

I like all the crap about how the tests aren't worth anything because they aren't scientific. Scientific testing definitely has its place, but how many people only use their hard use knives in a laboratory? :D I prefer using mine in a less controlled environment. :rolleyes: Still, they miss the whole point. Makers often advertise knives as being damn near indestructible even under extremely harsh conditions. The questions Noss's tests answer are 1. How tough is knife X REALLY? and 2. Just how much abject abuse can knife X withstand before it fails? It seems pretty self-explanatory to me. :confused::rockon:

[shmoopiebear]

I am disappointed that people who are combative enthusiasts, outdoorsmen, survalists, etc... do not consider Noss to be of service to the knife and tool community. Just taking the time and trouble to set up destructive testing saves all of the knife buying community a lot of money. And it take a lot of energy and resources to go through it all.

For me it has been an eye opener to see what really works under abusive stress testing. And with all the x factors involved with the supposed non scientific testing I think it is more than a fair test for practical purposes. Knives may be used in all sorts of ways in the field and none of them are as controlled as a laboratory environment. I mean how many people use knives in what would be designated in a controlled environment anyways? It's more than likely people abuse their tools than baby them especially if the tools were used hard.

Knowing what I know now will help me to determine how to maximize my purchases and for this I have Noss to thank you. On another note what did Cliff Stamp think of all the testing done by Noss? I know he is banned from BFC so there would be no true way to know. I consider Cliff to be a fair guy so I wouldn't be surprised if he got a chuckle out of all the testing and would be supportive of it. It would be interesting to get his take on it all.

[Fatpierre]

Why does this Phil person rate so many Mantis knives? I've never seen them before today, but they seem very "Klingon;" if I can get away with that.

[NervusNorvus]

The straw "poll" was vindictive, allowing only for biased votes. Seems to me, this Phil character is jealous. Below is a copy of my post in that thread:


/QUOTE/Since the language in the poll was unacceptable to me I did not vote. Here is the kind of poll option I would have chosen had it been available:
__________________________________

Why does Noss remain anonymous?
MY VOTE:--He is a private person who, nevetheless is commited to assist purchasers of "hard use" knives.
__________________________________

The important question is:- Do Noss' knife tests provide valuable information about durability?

Many of those wishing to attack Noss will try to discredit his character. Others will try to discredit the tests, claiming they cannot be valid if they are not "scientific". These types of criticisms are diversions and do not address the main issue:- Do Noss' tests have practical value for those wishing to buy the most rugged edged tool for the money.

I think most people see that Noss' tests provide strong predictive indications of any given knife models' performance under stresss/UNQUOTE/

[Izan]

I will bet you that none of these dudes even have a Busse/Rat/Scrap and even if they did, the only thing they have ever used it for was to open their Ethan Allen bill.

[Noss]

Damn I lost one of my posts in here. :eek: I was editing it, saved it and now its gone.
strange :headbang::smash:

If this happens to anyone else please let me know about it ?

[Noss]

It's really very simple. Phil is trying to become some kind of internet martial/knife guru. Look at ALL his complaints against Noss. Noss has his own website/forums (as does Phil); Noss is trying to brand himself (Phil was spamming his schlock on BFC and received infractions for it, even leading to a thread where they had to beat it into him that his shamless self promotion of his articles/whatever is SPAM); we don't 'know' who Noss is (we know 'who' Phil is).
This was another shamless act of self promotion by Shit Phil. He is pissed because he is the big published author/WND columnist and NO ONE GIVES A SHIT. Noss is getting all the attention. It's like Phil is Jan Brady...Marsha, Marsha, Marsha (Noss, Noss, Noss).
He is a self aggrandized attention whore who DESERVES an audience, don't you see?
Don't get me started on the High School attitudes on BFC.
[/sarcasm/] So, Noss, quit stealing Shit Phil's thunder! [/sarcasm/]

Chuck



lets try this again. This post is now out of place but I'll retype it anyways. :D

cgeyer: Yes this about sums it up with Phil. He never cared about the tests before. So I don't know why the hell he cares now about it. He has to spam his work on blade forums as you noted he was told to stop.. I'm sure he was told to stop other places as well. I never spam my work anywhere. I do it and post it. Because of the interest in it by many people it makes the rounds on the forums and internet sites. I use to post it on blade forums, This is where it got started also but I no longer do this simply just to save myself time at this point.

[Noss]

The straw "poll" was vindictive, allowing only for biased votes. Seems to me, this Phil character is jealous. Below is a copy of my post in that thread:


/QUOTE/Since the language in the poll was unacceptable to me I did not vote. Here is the kind of poll option I would have chosen had it been available:
__________________________________

Why does Noss remain anonymous?
MY VOTE:--He is a private person who, nevetheless is commited to assist purchasers of "hard use" knives.
__________________________________

The important question is:- Do Noss' knife tests provide valuable information about durability?

Many of those wishing to attack Noss will try to discredit his character. Others will try to discredit the tests, claiming they cannot be valid if they are not "scientific". These types of criticisms are diversions and do not address the main issue:- Do Noss' tests have practical value for those wishing to buy the most rugged edged tool for the money.

I think most people see that Noss' tests provide strong predictive indications of any given knife models' performance under stresss/UNQUOTE/



I like the last question on the poll the best Noss is really Cliff Stamp. ( this is not a joke) :D I think everyone with a brain knows I'm not Cliff Stamp.


Fatpierre: I don't know I guess Mantis knives are his thing.



shmoopiebear: When Cliff Stamp was on blade forums he seemed to support the tests. He was never critical of them that I ever saw. He understands them because he has been doing them much longer than I have.

G. Scott H: Yeah it's pretty simple really. If you want to see how tough a knife is ? Do something tough with it.

Will: lol. You remember that commercial. :D It was a good one. "we will make you feel like crap. We will ruin your day, Just 2.99 per minute 20 dollars for the first minute " Classic

[xxo]

I like the last question on the poll the best Noss is really Cliff Stamp. ( this is not a joke) :D I think everyone with a brain knows I'm not Cliff Stamp.



haha if Phil didn't close his scientific poll early, you might of lost that vote. :eek:

[me2]

I really like how anyone who gives a Busse a favorable review over other knives is labeled as biased. Its somewhere in that train wreck. Now Noss has a Busse like profile in his avatar, so he's obviously just a member of Busse's marketing team. Could it be that Busse builds good knives that are indeed tougher than the others, and live up to the makers claims better than other brands.

I will take this oportunity to draw a quick parallel between Busse and knives made by Alvin Johnson. Both live up to the makers claims. This I think is more the point of this entire site. Makers/companies claim their knives are tough. Noss says, "Ok, lets see what they will take" If the claim was moderate toughness and good edge holding, Noss wouldnt test them. If the claim is extremely high edge holding with a disclaimer on dropping them, then Alvin's knives live up to the claim. When cold steel says they make the toughest knives in the world, well, it only takes one to show they are blowing smoke, though the Kukri machete was impressive. Alvin's knives were poo'd on with out half the people even trying one. Quench and temper a kiridashi in 1095 to Alvins recipe, w/ a reported hardness of 66, and a 64-65 on a similar knife from the same piece of steel as the kiridashi, then drop that kiridashi onto concrete point first w/o damage. After this, tell me how his knives are way too hard and brittle as glass.

Watch Noss hammer a $300+ knife through wood and break it, then see him hammer another $300+ knife through metal with just edge tears and tell me the tests dont show anything. I havent read the CRK adds for the Project series, but I'd imagine words like "rough use, reliable, tough and dependable" show up often enough that a 1/4" thick piece of steel should be able to handle it. As I said before, I dont need a lab to tell me a $30 piece of spring tempered 1055 is tougher than a $300 piece of over tempered, high carbon, high wear, stainless steel. Noss' tests show orders of magnitude difference. Crap that was a ramble. Oh well, I aint retyping it now.

Every lab test needs to be accompanied by real world data to back it up. Think of Noss as the FDA of the knife world, without the Phen Phen and Zoloft screw ups. If repeatable scientific testing were the be all, end all its made out to be in Noss related threads, picking a knife steel and heat treatement would be simplicity itself, since there are nearly 70 years of research and data charts published on various steels. Oh wait, it is that simple. Its called the Metals Handbook: Tool Steels and ASM's Heat Treaters Guide, and Busse and Alvin seem to be the only ones who've read and retained much of it. Toughness you want, see S7, S5, A8 and some others. Oh look, Busse, maker of tough knives, is using one of these and something real close to another. You want extreme edge holding and see the chart in ASM about W2 out performing D2 until the hardened part of W2 is ground off by sharpening. Try some fully hardened W and O series steels properly hardened. Wait, Alvin did that, but with 1095 instead of the W series, and he puts on an edge that D2 cant support easily: 3-5 degrees per side, hollow ground, sharpened flat to the stone, with edge thicknesses of .001" or so. We, the knife buying public influenced by Noss, dont care that the CRK knives broke batoning through wood. What we care about is the perception that 1/4" steel properly hardened should handle this w/ no problem, and the makers advertising probably supports that idea. Then the knives break.

[cgeyer]

Yeah...I hadn't considered the whole 'What the Hell is this INFI stuff?!' factor. Wonder if Phil is trying to get some cred with other knife makers. Or maybe some advertising/monetary consideration.

You can say what you want about Jerry's designs, but the INFI always shines! Heck, the SR101 and S7 are pretty sweet, too.

[shmoopiebear]

shmoopiebear: When Cliff Stamp was on blade forums he seemed to support the tests. He was never critical of them that I ever saw. He understands them because he has been doing them much longer than I have.



And everybody knows Noss is not Cliff Stamp because Cliff is from Nova Scotia, Canada. Noss's accent may sound like Nova Scotian to some people unfamiliar to it. :p

[shmoopiebear]

Yeah...I hadn't considered the whole 'What the Hell is this INFI stuff?!' factor. Wonder if Phil is trying to get some cred with other knife makers. Or maybe some advertising/monetary consideration.

You can say what you want about Jerry's designs, but the INFI always shines! Heck, the SR101 and S7 are pretty sweet, too.

...Busse knives and all their spin off companies charge such a premium for their knives. They have been tried, tested, and proven.

[cgeyer]

I really don't find the prices from Busse et. al. to be high compared to other high end makers. The secondary market, however, is a whole 'nother can of worms. If I can't get it direct from Busse, I trade for it.

[Noss]

haha if Phil didn't close his scientific poll early, you might of lost that vote. :eek:

Scary isn't :eek:

me2: great post. It doesn't seem to be to hard to make a good tough blade if makers would stick to a few basics like you stated. The knife industry if full of marketing fluff. Sometimes the fluff/hype is true and sometimes not. Many buy knives based on makers claims and the hype is fueled by the buyers of the knives without testing the hype.
Busse dominates in the toughness category so far in my tests. INFI and M-INFI has preformed better than all so far along with Scrap yards Sr-77. Cold Steels spring tempered 1055 has done great also. Many of the knives I test are just basic common steels and they are in the mid range of toughness and strength. Most of these knives are in the 4 range of my rating system and perform well in the tests.

shmoopiebear: Yeah I don't sound like I'm from Nova Scotia, Canada. I live in Texas. I was born in Texas.

[xxo]

Yeah I don't sound like I'm from Nova Scotia, Canada. I live in Texas. I was born in Texas.


you may sound like a Texan....but you can't fool Sharp Phil....he's on to you Noss LOL

[Noss]

xxo: There is no fooling Phil I guess. LOL :D

[Gerry.Agnosia]

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[Noss]

Gerry.Agnosia: Thanks for the support. I never new anything about Phil before he started on with his rant about KT. I have learned plenty about him now. It just keeps getting worse and worse everything I read about him. I'll check out the forum you listed.