knife sharpening help

[Richard J]

I asked Noss to add this section to his forum. I cant help out with sharpening systems like the Lansky, Sharpmaker or any other systems but i do have hand sharpening tricks that I have used since I was 14. I never used stones too much, I used a lot of sandpaper and a ceramic stick. The only system I use now are the paper wheels which will give you consistent results once you learn how to use them. Culpeper bought a set and has learned how to use them successfully. For thoes of you who dont feel safe using equipment like this I offer a sharpening service. I will be specializing in convex edges along with any other needs you might have. I do all sharpening freehand without any guides. I can touch up serrated blades just as long as they arent too bad. Do you have a knife with a dull guthook? I can sharpen thoes too.Soon I will be set up to do recurve blades which can be hard to do. Check out these videos of 2 knives I made slicing newspaper. they were sharpened on the paper wheels. http://www.myculpeper.com/richardj/MLNA0018.AVI http://www.myculpeper.com/richardj/MLNA0001a.AVI

[Noss]

Richard J: Welcome to the forum.

[itxploded]

neat, welcome to the forum

[thombrogan]

Hi Richard J!

Noticed I hadn't seen you in pirateland lately. Is this where you've been?

[Noss]

thombrogan: Welcome to the forum.

[Richard J]

welcome to the forum thom. glad to see you here (i just joined last week). i might look in there to see who the latest idiot is but i quit posting in there. i still spend a lot of time on bladeforums mainly reading threads or helping people who need help getting a knife sharp. a few weeks ago i talked to brian breeden about sharpening his knives. he was amazed at how sharp i can get a knife (he seen my newspaper slicing video). after talking with him on the phone he is now able to get his knives just as sharp. i have been talking to boxerbill now. he has the paper wheels but just hasnt been able to get the hang of them but i'm working with him on that. he said the pictures i sent helped him understand more than reading could have. tom berry was pleased with the job i done on his knives, recurves can be a bear but i have a set of 1/4" wheels on the way that will fix that problem.

[thombrogan]

Thanks for the welcome, guys!

That's awesome that you're helping other knifemakers get their knives really sharp. Of course, if you keep the high-hardness 1075 to yourself while others insist on using the latest, 'greatest' fad steels, your knives will stay sharp longer.

[Richard J]

i need to have noss send me some scrap pieces of that "fad" steel to test edge against edge with the 1075. i'm going to test a piece for a lathe turning tool to see how it holds up. i was reading an article on the 1070 series steel not long after getting a piece of disc tested to see what i t was. a university in dayton ohio was testing the 1070 series steel for armor piercing round inserts. i lost the link but it was an interesting read. i wonder how well the "fad" steels would hold up as a disc hitting rocks while going 5+ mph. i have seen discs flex in the ground to the point you would think they should break but they dont. it takes a good hit or bend to break one which i havent seen happen too often.

[thombrogan]

Neat stuff! Would the heat-treat for an armor-piercing insert leave the steel too soft for use as a blade? I like fine-grained steels that reach high levels of hardness and are heat-treated to take advantage, so that's cool stuff to me.

[Richard J]

i would say as tough as this stuff is anything between 56 and 63 would make a good insert. most factory store bought knives rockwell around 56 which is what the steel i use starts out at. this is so it sharpens easily but is still hard enough to hold a decent edge. i take it up in hardness on the edge so it holds an edge similar to an exacto blade or utility knife blade. you can cut a long time with one but the whole blade will break easily. i leave the rest of the blade soft so it is stronger.

[Macgregor]

Fad steels eh.
Richard, I should bring my s90v military over and see how many wheels it will wear through before it becomes sharp.
Heck, I think it would wear through my arkansas bench stone before it would become sharp. :D
I have to use diamond with it.

[Richard J]

i can grind tool steel with the equipment i have. i even have diamond that could probably do a ceramic blade if i ever had one to try it on. i even put an edge on a carbide scraper i made for a friend a long time ago. like i said, there's not much i cant sharpen. when you come over make sure you bring mike over too and bring every knife you both own. you'll go home with bald arms when i'm done sharpening your knives. doing a knife by hand is going to take longer too. i used to do them by hand until i bought a set of the wheels.

[G. Scott H.]

Great new section. I'm glad to hear the paper wheels work well. I've had the link to the Razor Sharp site on my favorites for maybe a year (or more) now, but I've never tried them out. I do have a Ryobi 6" grinder that I bought 3 or 4 years ago (before I knew what I was doing :o) but I discovered quickly that the standard wheels will burn a blade before you know what hit you. I've been using the sandpaper-over-leather method for hand sharpening and the 1x30 sander for power sharpening over the past year, and they both give great edges, but I'm always looking for something new to check out. :rockon:

[eatingmuchface]

mac: yeah but does that thing ever get dull?!
:D

[Richard J]

to me the wheels are the best thing going once you learn how to use them. culpeper has a set and he learned how to use them. earlier this year i had 2 bladeforum members stop over and they want a set of these wheels. a friend i went to shcool with had me sharpen a pocket knife he carrys to work with him. a buddy came up to him and showed him his knife and how it would shave a few hairs off his arm. my friend took out his knife and shaved a strip of hair off his arm then asked what he thought of how sharp his knife was. his buddy was amazed at how sharp his knife was and asked who sharpened it. now he wants me to sharpen his knife too. g.scott h. go ahead and get a set of the wheels. i have free long distance on my phone and i will be glad to talk you through learning how to use them. i will do this for anyone, even in canada since i can call there too for free. anyone mentioning my name before ordering will get a discount on the wheels. there are copies of the wheels but thats all they are. they dont work as well either, i have a set of the cheap copies and dont like them.

[culpeper]

Yep, the cardboard wheels are the way to go if you want sharp all the way down to frightening sharp. Takes a little practice on old kitchen knives, hack saw blades, and so forth. But it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when you hold a sheet of paper in one hand and the knife in the other hand and slice right through it without stopping like a hot blade through butter. It gives off this scary sort of faint severing sound, "SSSSSSSssssssssssssssssss..."

[Richard J]

its such a sweet sound:D

[Macgregor]

mac: yeah but does that thing ever get dull?!
:D

So far the only place it is dull is up near the tip.
Thats because I was cutting food on a piece of glass, its not really dull it just cant shave hair there any more.

[Richard J]

does anyone have a scandi grind that is dull and needs sharpened?

[Thecarotidpulse]

Nope but you could make me happy by telling me 2 things...

1) am I correct in my understanding that a Scandi grind is one where the edge bevel is the same as the bevel on the knife, or the edge portion of the knife.
As opposed to a flat or V ground knife where you have the knife, the bevel leading to the edge, then the edge itself as a secondary bevel?

2) Can I, or would I want to - put a scandi grind on an LMFII? (ruins the coating)
I'm thinking of using a Lanski instead on it...

Oh and 3) (lol) if I were to use a Lansky on a Scandi ground knife, would it put a secondary edge bevel on it, changing it from Scandi to Flat ground?

[Thecarotidpulse]

Oh and let's say that you have a really wide knife, and wanted to scandi grind it. It's one with an existing flat grind, so you have your knife, then a bevel which leads to the edge bevel.

Now suppose that this bevel is really wide, and you were to scandi grind it... then wouldn't the resulting edge be REALLY thin? or is that part of the point for Scandis?

And lastly why does NO ONE in Ottawa sell Moras? (rethorical question)

[Richard J]

for your first question, i like gerber knives and i would leave that one alone. you can see helle knives here. http://www.ragweedforge.com/HelleCatalog.html a scandi grind is one where the edge bevel is the same as the bevel on the knife as you said. for your other question. the edge would be too thin. i dont live in canada so you'll have to find that answer yourself. the reason i was asking if anyone had a dull scandi grind knife is to see how well a new method i came up with works for sharpening a scandi grind if they do it.

[Thecarotidpulse]

Thanks Richard!

I think ima use a Lansky on it, and give Ray Mears the finger *pops up middle finger* <--- see? this one right here. Oh and double barrels while I'm at it.

[Richard J]

if anyone is wanting their knife sharpened by me, send me a pm please.

[Richard J]

yesterday mac was over to pick up a few knives i had reprofiled and to get a few things sharpened. when i was sharpening a busse of his, i had him take a short vid of how short a time it takes to remove the burr from a knife with the paper wheels. normally it doesnt take this long to do but i hit the edge a few extra times just to make sure. here is the link to the vid that culpeper was nice enough to put up for me. http://www.myculpeper.com//richardj/2008richardj4.wmv

[Noss]

Cool. :cool: I think I'm going to get a set of those wheels and give them a try. I was looking at them on the website last night and now this morning you post a video of them in action. Perfect timing :D:thumb:

[Richard J]

and just think, it only takes 2 wheels to get a knife sharp and nothing else. save your leather strop for the campsite or when the power is out and you need a knife touched up. $45 or $55 for a 10" kit, depending on the wheel width & arbor size. $35 for an 8" kit & $30 for a 6" kit.

[Macgregor]

Richard, email me the file and I will post it on youtube.

[Macgregor]

BTW, I just cut my ass with the ash. :D

[Richard J]

i posted it already in the sharpening section but here it is again http://www.myculpeper.com//richardj/2008richardj4.wmv video 4 mac as my cameraman :D

[Richard J]

anyone wanting to get a set of the safe, tested wheels can order them direct from mike. just give him your forum name, real name and the forum you belong to and that you seen my post and he'll give you a discount. here is the price list minus shipping. $45 or $55 for a 10" kit, depending on the wheel width & arbor size. $35 for an 8" kit & $30 for a 6" kit. http://www.sharpeningwheels.com/ 1 866 419 4879

[Izan]

Is there any why to get a blade as sharp as some of your knives by hand just by using stones?

[Richard J]

a stone can only get a knife so sharp imo. to get a knife sharper, you need to buff the edge which is why i finish off my knives with nothing but the paper buffing wheel. you can go through a bunch of steps with different belts but to me thats a waste of time. i used to use a guided system that worked pretty good and finish the edge off with a ceramic stick. my friend art summers showed me the paper wheels and the kind of edge you can get from using them and decided they were the way to go. when you can sharpen 30-35 knives in 45 minutes and have them all just as sharp, you cant get any better than that. noss seen first hand the kind of edge i put on my knives when i sent him a knife. now he has a set of wheels on order. joe has a set too and i bet if you ask him if he'll ever go back to hand sharpening he'll probably tell you "no way"

[cgeyer]

I can get my knives shaving sharp by hand (stones/ceramic rods/stropping), but Richard got my Busse Scotch Dispenser to SPLIT hair in about a minute on those paper wheels. While I still sharpen by hand, I let Richard give them a quick touch up on his wheels.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll188/cjpgeyer/DSCN0978.jpg

Chuck

[Noss]

That thing is not sharp. It didn't even cut all the way through the hair. I say Richard needs to get himself a new sharpening system. :p:D





Just joking of course.:D Looks vary impressive. I going to get a set of those wheels here soon and give them a try.

[Richard J]

smartass:p:D

[me2]

Thanks for the welcome, guys!

That's awesome that you're helping other knifemakers get their knives really sharp. Of course, if you keep the high-hardness 1075 to yourself while others insist on using the latest, 'greatest' fad steels, your knives will stay sharp longer.

Amen. Thom, I'm looking forward to trying the M2 on the 0.3 micron honing films. I just have to put a new handle on it. I recently started doing my hand sharpening at a much more obtuse angle than I before. My Spyderco and Byrd are at 25 degrees or so, but still split hair. I end up rebeveling eventually on the belt sander, but for now, the higher angles speed honing time. I moved back to hand sharpening because I was oversharpening way to many knives with the sander.

[Richard J]

you need to get a set of paper wheels. you can buff an edge back and not remove any metal. i cut the finger off a kevlar glove with the knife i made for jtr357 which shined the edge somewhat. i wanted to show a friend how sharp his knife was and how easily an edge can be brought back with the paper buffing wheel. before i did buff it, you could have still skinned a few deer with the knife. i did work up a fine burr again on the belt sander once i was back home to make sure it was good to go.

[Richard J]

noss, whats your opinion on the paper wheels now that you have had a chance to play with them yourself?

[Old Spice]

I have ordered some paper wheels looking forward to trying them. Hoping the slotted wheel really makes touching up a blade only a few seconds worth of effort.

[Richard J]

you'll love the wheels. i used to hand sharpen and now i'll never go back. i can put an edge on by hand that will scare you but nothing like what the wheels can do. i put the edge on a regulator that was so sharp it scared the owner to have it out of the sheath. make sure you check out my paper wheel thread over on bladeforums. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578787

i also have a tips page on my website that is helpful.

[Old Spice]

I'm now shaving with an aluminum butter knife:D

[Richard J]

how many of you use a guided system similar to a lansky? do you know that in order to have a set angle there has to be 3 set points of a certain length? i used to use an ez sharp which was similar to a lansky and i could sharpen a knife on it and a few weeks later sharpen it again and the angle would be off.

if you sharpen a knife and have the rod set in the 20 degree slot and the knife is really wide blade, the angle will be different than a knife with a narrow blade. that is one thing i dont like about a guided system. think about it the next time you sharpen a knife on a guided system. are you getting the angle you think you are?