Saving Private Gerber

[Thecarotidpulse]

Well I bought a Lansky today.

Some people might try to call this a good thing, however they are the ones that do not know my intent for it.

The only reason I got the Lansky instead of going for the sandpaper+mousepad convex technique is for 1 knife, and 1 knife alone.

The Gerber LMF II


There have been a couple of problems with the knife, which Im going to endeavour to fix.

For one thing, the edge. The actual plain cutting edge is tiny, and since I intend to use this knife for batonning rather than chopping, and mostly *cutting*, I needed this knife to be a hell of a lot sharper than it is.

I agree with Sharp on his review, it doesn't come with a sharp edge, and doesn't hold the one from the sheath sharpener.


A couple of things I want to do: (someone please call me crazy)

As of this morning, the angle for the edge (in box) was a bit above 20 degrees each side. I don't have the tools to measure this so if anyone else has one, please let me know!

I clamped on that lansky, and started the laborious task of taking down the edge to the 17 Degree/side mark.
(the Lansky has a 20* and 17* implement mark, one or the other)

Why? because I wanted a thinner edge geometry, and a sharper edge, for CUTTING POWER.
Why am I affraid? Because the more metal I take off (on one side, still taking metal off the side just getting close to the edge) the more this edge is actually looking thin.

Im wondering if any of you have experience with a 17* edge with a 4-5 mm blade, do they tend to hold well?

From the tests I saw that the 12c27 steel was very chip resistant, so I figured that the edge wouldn't chip out on me. But now i'm worried that it's going to roll instead.

I figured that the steel was hard enough (RC 58) not to do that and to take the thinner edge.

I also saw many reviews and advice that with modern steel you rarely used a Lansky except at the 17* mark. What have you guys found?

Even now... looking at it... it's going to look thin. Do you think it that proves to be a problem that I can finish the current track at 17*, then put in a tertiary bevel at 20* and convex the bevel by hand?

It's looking thin.. but compared to a Scandi - maybe i'm getting jitters from seeing an axe edge become a thin one.... IN any case if I pull this off it will be lethal.


Also it's taking a HECK of a long time to get through that metal. I have the regular stones, not the Diamond ones... and boy is this steel hard to get through. (bear in mind i've never seen D2)


Ok guys, experiments are done for the day, so any advice you guys have would be awesome!

[Thecarotidpulse]

Whoa... weirdness alert: I just noticed something> I was running my coarse hone along the length of the edge to look at the angle it would give me...

And I noticed that all this time I had been trying to get the tip edge at 17* but the part immediately next to the serrations was already at that angle... from what I can tell it doesn't look as thin ?

And yeah... about 17 degrees... I know what the manufacturere says, but i've also seen discusssions (as I said earlier) saying that thin was the wya to go. What are your experiences?

Could the grind at the tip be thicker than in the body of the blade? that would explain being able to resist metal penetration (for egress)...

[Thecarotidpulse]

A post that I found usefull...


http://edcforums.com/index.php?topic=13898.0

[Not too bad, man]

I bought a Gatco (similar to the Lansky) for reprofiling. I have been using the 15 or 19 degree slots and then finishing with the Sharpmaker. While it is effective (I've never been able to get a knife this sharp), it takes me forever, and I always wind up with sctratches on the blade just like the dude in that tutorial. Fine for a user, but still annoying.

Anyways, I was under the impression that 17 degrees per side would be just fine for a knife like that Gerber. I am no expert though...:D

[Sharp]

I might not take it down so thin.

I remember seeing a Customized Swamprat M6's edge get totally eaten up from chopping 2x4 because the edge got re-profiled and was much thinner.

Then again, 12c27 is a steel that is meant to be used with a thin edge (razor blades). Good edge stability and malleability, it won't dull quickly but instead roll/dent under heavy use and all you need to get back to sharpness is a little ceramic rod and strop. Rolling is somewhat of a good thing.

You also need to remember why Gerber Created the LMFII and it's design purpose. It is a survival knife made for use when a soldier gets stuck in a helicopter or plane crash. The front portion isn't meant to cut very well but also not break and not chip so much from cutting aluminum, steel, etc. The lengthy serrated portion is made for the actual useful cutting after you nearly dull the edge from getting out of a crash (as the case with many knives from use after cutting alloys). The point that I'm trying to get to is, the serrations are made for cutting, and we already know how nasty sharp serration can be and how much longer they actually hold and edge. They will also baton fine. You just might not get clean cuts during slicing. Then again, it isn't a slicer :D

You know, For what's its worth, I would actually grind the serration down and make it look like a tracker type knives since none of us would really need to ever get out of a plane/helicopter crash and would just happen to have this knife. This would actually make it some what more useful and you have a very unique looking knife. :D

[Thecarotidpulse]

Not too bad and Sharp, thanks for the advice! Those were some excellent posts.

Sharp, in answer to you... With regards to cutting through helo fuselage... Well you know me. I'm going to get a second LMF for use @ work and not modify it.

I have been thinking of grinding down the serrations... I'm not going to do that though a) the metal is wayy to hard for me to want to fidle with it (even with a diamond stone or file) and i don't want to use power tools on it. Preference and also don't want to chance heating it up.

Also I think that if i can turn the plain edge into a cutter, i'll be happy keeping the serrations for rope, cardboard, and things that would dull my plain edge faster. Keep the plain edge for cutting wood and softer materials....

I have had a little bit of time to work on it today. Still working on that bit at the tip that refuses to grind down...

I'm not sure if it will be too thin, but i'll check it out, and if it ends up being too thin I'll make a tertiary bevel at 20 or 25 degrees and convex the different bevels into a convex edge.

(my solution to making convex edges on speed =D )

Also this is a picture from a post over at KF. Some guy gave his knives to a sharpening expert for him to touch up, and also to grind down the serrations off the LMF II...He botched up the job, ruining the knives. BUt this is what the LMF II looked like.

http://hem.passagen.se/nodh/0435-600.jpg

http://hem.passagen.se/nodh/0435-600.jpg

I know it's not what you mean, in terms of making a tracker knife, but its a risk...

Anyway, I need one of them Lansky DMTs... This is taking forever with a coarse stone.

[Sharp]

Well in that case be my guest and grind down that LMF's edge. :D

For you next LMF get the one with the ankle attachment. Always keep it a bit handy (or footy).

Now that you mentioned a convex edge, that might actually be the best way to go. I don't suppose you would have a slack belt sander? You could also do a mousepad and sandpaper but that might be a bit time consuming.

BTW, that ground down LMF is just messed.....

[Thecarotidpulse]

BTW, that ground down LMF is just messed.....

Tell me about it: the guy that posted it was practically hysterical. He's sueing the guy that sharpened it for the value of the knives because there were 2-3 fallknivens in the lot.

The froob V ground the fallknivens at a 30* angle per side... A Beautifull cutter turned into a simple slab of VG10 :eek:

Anyway, I know about the sandpaper and mousepad technique. The reasonn why I didn't want to use it on the LMFII is because it messes with the coating. Ruins it actually.

That's why I went with the Lansky (and for regrinding edges... Dont have a belt sander and don't want to use power tools on it - call it stubbornness)

I think I will convex it, according to a technique that I will document ( in case it works).

Oh and it does have ankle straps... It's very ninja (you'd be happy) but my problem with leg wear is that if i'm hiking in rocky areas it seems to hit a lot of rocks.

Maybe i'm babying it... but not too much! I only sing to it once in a while...

Also, for the serrations: they are chisel ground into the knife. I think that's why we both get better curls with them than with the plain edge (finer geometry).

If i was to grind the serrations out of there, I think i'd keep the chisel edge. Or do a half convex sort of thing.

EDIT: OMg you wouldn't believe how long i'm filing down at this thing... still at that same trouble spot! It's tough steel!:confused:

[Thecarotidpulse]

UPDATE:


Still grinding down on that edge.... !

I really need that diamond Lansky... or a belt sander =/

I've also noticed that there is more metal on the right side of the spine, in the tip area, than the left. By about 1/2- 1 mm. (the part I haven't touched)

Oh well.. it's not perfect. If it was it'd have to be... a LIGHTSABER.

[Sharp]

How's progress?