So you want an AR-15? Read this

[LoganSackett]

The AR-15 is one of the most popular semi-auto rifles around today. It is light, very accurate, and easily customized. I am going to show you the basics of the AR-15 platform and try to debunk a few myths about them.:)
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/September272008001.jpg

Like I said, the AR is semi automatic. It uses the same gas system that the military's M-16s use. The gases that are traveling down the barrel are redirected under the front sight into a tube. They then travel backward 3 times the speed of the bullet and push back the bolt and bolt carrier. A spring in the stock pushes the bolt carrier forward again which chambers the next round. Of course there are more complicated aspects involved in this (i.e the rotating and locking of the bolt etc.) but this is basically what happens.

Okay, now you know how it works. There are many different variants out there. They can come in calibers from .22 LR all the way up to the mighty .50 BMG. They come in barrel lengths from 7.5 inches up to 24". There are even pistol versions. Which rifle should I choose? Well, that depends on what you are using the gun for. If you just want to punch paper targets, any AR-15 will work. The most accurate versions are the 20'' and 24'' barreled rifles. They normally come with a carry handle that is grooved for a scope mount. I personally would not recommend a scope for the new AR owner. I just think that they complicate things too much. Learn how to use the iron sights first, then move on to a scope. The sights on the AR-15 are very good. They are raised, so they come to your eye very quickly.

This is the front sight.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/September272008002.jpg

You can clearly see the post in the center with the two "bunny" ears on either side.

Now for the rear sight.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/September272008003.jpg

To use the sights, simply look through the rear peep sight and put the front sight post under the target. If the rifle is zeroed correctly, the point of impact should be exactly above the very center of the post. A typical unmodified AR-15 can produce groups of 1.5 MOA. Target and competition models are even more accurate.

If you are looking for a home defense gun, the AR-15 is considered to be one of the best, if not the best, platform out there. You may want to get a shorter barrel for home defense. A 16'' carbine and collapsible stock is short enough for most people, yet long enough to be comfortable. I believe a tactical light is an important feature to have on a home defense rifle. You MUST properly identify your target before shooting. People have been killed when the shooter thought that they were intruders but failed to identify them as a friendly. A light allows you to keep both hands on the gun and keep the gun aimed at the target . It gives you the advantage by allowing you to see him, but it temporarily blinds him and he can't see you. I recommend a Surefire light, myself.

For hunting, the AR-15 can be a hell of a rifle. You can get them in many different calibers and sizes. Varmint hunters like the 24'' .223 rifles for their extreme accuracy. Deer hunters like the AR-10 in .308 for it's greater punch. It's all up to you. I know a guy who went bear hunting with his AR-15 in .458 SOCOM.:D Again, the shorter carbines might be a good option for you if you plan on doing a long trek. Almost all AR-15s have sling swivels (Bushmaster and many companies ship the rifle with a sling) so I would advise that as well.

Ammo

The great thing about getting an AR-15 in .223 is that you can use surplus military ammo that is cheaply and widely available, right? WRONG! Using military ammo in an AR-15 that is chambered for .223 can result in disaster. ALWAYS make sure that the rifle is marked 5.56 NATO before using military ammo. The reason is that the military ammo is loaded to a higher pressure and has a thicker case than civilian ammo. The civilian chambers are too tight and aren't as beefed up as the 5.56 chambers. The extra tightness leads to more accuracy, but less reliability. The military chamber is slightly larger to allow more dirt and grit in there before the rifle jams. Most AR manufacturers build their rifles to military specs, but remember to check.

Rifling twist rates

The original M16A1s that were used in Vietnam had twist rates of 1 twist every 12''. This is good for 55 grain bullets, and horrid for 62 gr. The 62 gr M855 round will have groups of 1-2 feet at 100y with a 1:12. That shows you the importance of twist rates. Nowadays the M16A2 uses a 1:7 twist. This is to stabilize the M856 tracer round. I believe Bushmaster uses a 1:9 in every rifle. This is the best twist as it gives you the ability to stabilize a large variety of ammunition. Bullets can spin at over 300,00 rpm from 1:7 barrels. That is more than enough to spin them to pieces if they are light and thin jacketed. Make sure you know what you are using the rifle for before choosing the twist rate. I believe the best is 1:9.

Myths and legends

AR-15s jam!:eek::eek::eek:

FALSE. They jam no more than any other rifle. Just make sure it is properly maintained and you will be fine.:thumb:

But but .223 is only for varmints! It is lousy for self defense!:eek::eek::eek:

FALSE. The .223 is a very lethal round. When it hits, the extreme velocity rips the bullet to pieces and sends fragments throughout the body. Not something I want going through me. Plus, nearly every military in the free world uses .223. If there was something wrong with the round, they wouldn't use it.

AR-15 bullets tumble through the air.:confused::confused::confused:

:rolleyes:They only tumble when they hit a target. That is where the fragmentation comes from. They can tumble in mid-air, if the twist rate is completely off (1:12'' twist firing M855) but a normal rifle will not do this.

The .223 can't penetrate well.:eek::eek:

FALSE. It can penetrate VERY well. Here is a piece of 3/8'' aluminum plate that was ventilated by my Bushmaster at 240 yards. See page 5 for a steel plate that was completely penetrated by the AR-15 but not the AK-47.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/TargetsJuly08006.jpg

So which brand for me?

Well now it gets interesting. Colt is considered to be the best by many. The downside is the price. A good price for a Colt would be $1200. Armalite is also very very good. They typically cost around $900 to $1000. Bushmaster is the most popular. They run from $800-$1000.

There you go, ABC for Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt. :DNow there are LOTS of other companies out there. Rock River Arms is good, DPMS, though cheaper ($700-$1000), is as well. Olympic Arms can be good and bad. DO NOT buy from Vulcan Armament aka Hesse. They have been known to explode.


Tomorrow I will explain fieldstripping and magazines as well as how to operate it.

Hope this helps.

[LoganSackett]

Forgot to mention legality issues.

The Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 banned the AR-15 by name along with many other rifles that Bill Clinton decided were evil. AR-15s had to have no flash hider, no bayonet lug, a fixed (non collapsible or folding) stock, a non threaded barrel, no grenade launcher, and a magazine of 10 rounds or less. That ban expired in 2004. Certain states have their AWB. I live in New Jersey. My Ar-15 has a 10 round mag, and no flash hider or bayonet lug. The stock is fixed. Therefore it is perfectly legal here. Make sure you look up your state's laws before purchasing a rifle.

[LoganSackett]

edit: Full auto mouse.

[kiah]

Have you seen the AR-57 uppers yet. FNH 5.7 and uses P90 magazines. Ejects down through the mag well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/CG52/ar57.jpg

I don't have an AR. I keep wanting to pick one up, but can't justify it when I already have a perfectly capable .223 Saiga.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=99871&stc=1&d=1213230541

[G. Scott H.]

That's a mighty roomy ejection port on that AR-57. :D Looks pretty sweet. :rockon:

[Shaolin]

Very nice write-up, thanks. Only into hand guns for now.

[LoganSackett]

Have you seen the AR-57 uppers yet. FNH 5.7 and uses P90 magazines. Ejects down through the mag well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/CG52/ar57.jpg

I don't have an AR. I keep wanting to pick one up, but can't justify it when I already have a perfectly capable .223 Saiga.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=99871&stc=1&d=1213230541

That looks cool! I know what you mean about the AR too. I waited for years before I got one because I had an AK that I liked. Once I did buy one, I never looked back.:D

[culpeper]

Even though I don't own one I used to have but had to give it back a USAF GAU-5, which was very similar. I actually shot the GAU better than the M-16.

A couple of pictures of the GAU-5 (Colt Model 649) This isn't me. I didn't look look like some suck up little nerd. Plus, I didn't wear glasses back then as well. I would have kicked this SP's ass in the field just for wearing a scarf.

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/M4/GAU-5A.jpg

I preferred to run around like this.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/CCTwithGAU-5.jpg/404px-CCTwithGAU-5.jpg

But the Colt AR-15 is a fantastic weapon.

[LoganSackett]

Even though I don't own one I used to have but had to give it back a USAF GAU-5, which was very similar. I actually shot the GAU better than the M-16.

A couple of pictures of the GAU-5 (Colt Model 649) This isn't me. I didn't look look like some suck up little nerd. Plus, I didn't wear glasses back then as well. I would have kicked this SP's ass in the field just for wearing a scarf.

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/images/M4/GAU-5A.jpg

I preferred to run around like this.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/CCTwithGAU-5.jpg/404px-CCTwithGAU-5.jpg

But the Colt AR-15 is a fantastic weapon.

Yeah those short ones are nice, aren't they?:D If I have some extra money,I would like to get an XM177 clone.

[LoganSackett]

Okay now we know the basics.Time to go into some more detail.

Parts of the rifle

The charging handle

Mag release

Forward assist

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/September282008002-1.jpg

As you can see, the charging handle is located right behind the carrying handle and above the stock. It is ambidextrous and is easy to operate with the weapon pointed at the target. This is important during a tactical situation. You don't want to have to take the gun off the threat. The mag release is behind the magwell. You can press this with your index finger and the mag will simply drop free. It is very easy to use. The forward assist is used to push the bolt carrier forward and ensure that the round is firmly chambered. I usually tap the forward assist every time I insert a new mag just to make sure the bolt is all the way forward.

Now for the next group of controls

Safety lever

Bolt release

Charging handle

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/September282008001-1.jpg

Here the safety lever is shown. You can operate the safety with your thumb. Like the charging handle, it is important to be able to do this with the rifle aimed at the threat. Tap the bolt release to allow the bolt to slam forward and chamber the next round after the new mag is inserted. And lastly, we see the other side of the charging handle in this picture.

Next we will cover field stripping.

[LoganSackett]

Fieldstripping your AR-15.

The first thing to do is to remove the handguards.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/AR15disassembly1.jpg

Next you push in the takedown pin as far as it will go. Many people use a punch or bullet tip to push the pins in. They will not fall out the other side.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d2.jpg

Now pivot the upper receiver from the lower.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d3.jpg

Now push in the front pivot pin.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d4.jpg

Next we pull the upper from the lower. This should be easy to do.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d5.jpg

Now we pull back the charging handle. The bolt should come with it.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d6.jpg

Take out the bolt carrier and bolt.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d6.jpg

Remove the charging handle by pulling it back and rotating it to get it out of the upper receiver.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d8.jpg

Look at the bolt carrier. You should see a pin near the front. Use a bullet tip or punch to push it out. DO NOT LOSE THE TINY PIN!

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d9.jpg

Push in the bolt into the locked position. It should rotate slightly as you do this.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d10.jpg

Let the firing pin drop into your hand. If it doesn't pull it gently.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d11jpg.jpg

Rotate the bolt cam pin 1/4 of the way and pull it out.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d12.jpghttp://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d13.jpg

Now you pull the bolt assembly from the carrier.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d14.jpg

Next you push out the extractor pin. I usually use the firing pin to do this.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d16.jpg

Take out the spring and the extractor. Please be careful not to let the spring separate from the extractor.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d17.jpg

Now go into the stock and press down the buffer tube retainer. Once you have done this, just pull out the buffer and spring.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d19.jpg


Your fieldstripped rifle should look like this.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/ar15d20.jpg

[LoganSackett]

I think that just about covers it. If there is anything I missed or was wrong about, let me know and I will try to fix it. Hope this helps.

[culpeper]

I think that just about covers it. If there is anything I missed or was wrong about, let me know and I will try to fix it. Hope this helps.

Great instructions. :rockon:

If you are under 29 years of age you should be able to do this with your eyes closed after enough practice. Anyone over 29 gets to be grandfathered in.:p

[LoganSackett]

I think I'll add some links for anyone interested in buying one.

http://www.bushmaster.com/

http://www.impactguns.com/store/colt_rifles.html

http://www.armalite.com/

http://www.dpmsinc.com/

http://www.olyarms.com/

http://www.rockriverarms.com/

http://www.cmmginc.com/

http://www.stagarms.com/

A few high end brands.

http://www.noveskerifleworks.com/

http://www.spikestactical.com/catalog/home.php

http://www.pof-usa.com/

http://www.lesbaer.com/ar223.html

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index_rifle.htm

[Macgregor]

This is a great thread!

Unfortunately I can only afford russian beaters right now.

[LoganSackett]

This is a great thread!

Unfortunately I can only afford russian beaters right now.

I'll do another thread on AK-47's and their variants. They are so popular now, it's worth the time to explain them too.:thumb:

And the great thing is, they cost about $350!:D

[sharpshooter996]

Thank you for the great post and your support of our troops. Semper Fi.

I must say I agree with most of what was said in regards to the AR-15. It is a proven battle rifle this is without argue. However it does have some drawbacks. I have owned and shot several brand of AR rifles in several configurations. From Colt, Bushmaster and Rock River. The Colt is the most Military exact design but all listed are very good.

In the thousands of rounds I have put thru these rifles I have seen some of the problems associated with this design.

Here are some of my biggest complaints.

1- Gas system. Lets face it. It is just a poor design. Why Mr Stoner did not follow with a gas piston design is beyond me. His Stoner 64 rifle and design is far better in my mind and by most experienced shooters alike. The AR system brings dirty gas back into the action of the rifle making for a dramatic increase maintance compared to the Gas piston design. Another neg of this design is that the bolt and operating components run hot with use. This is a factor resulting in increased failures. A hot operating gun is more prone to failure, especially when not clean. This is a documented and proven fact of the AR design.


Maintance- This stems from two areas. 1. being the dirty gas system. 2. is the complexity of the design and amt of parts. More parts = greater chance of failure and need for repair. both by failure and wear. The AR 15 is one of the most complicated assult rifles ever produced. A great deal of teaching is required to achieve a competent user. And compared to other designs, the AR requires a high degree of maintence for reliable battlefield use.


Mags- There are several mag designs avail. The most common being Gi aluminum with phosphate coating, followed by Plastic or polymer. The later being superior in reliability. There are 2 major problems with the Gi mag. The first being the phosphate coating. The problem comes when the inside of the mag gets dirty from sand or dirt. This causes friction with the followers resulting in feeding malfunctions. A blued mag will not exhibit these problems. second issue is this metal lips. When a AR mag is left loaded for a period of time the thin metal of lips will bend and this will cause a double feed. I have seen this many times with high use mags, and mags that are stored full for a extended period. If you replace mags frequent and store them half full you will not have an issue but if you do not follow these steps you will see a failure.


These are my big concerns I have had using the AR 15 platform. Many of these problems can be corrected if a Gas piston design is used and Polymer mags. In recent months and year there have been makers on the market of just such designs. HK 416 being the biggest. With this design the AR becomes immensely more reliable and has a lower maintenance rate.

I feel that the AK design weapon system is superior to the AR in all of these ways. The #1 complaint of the AK series is poor accuracy. There is a huge difference between battlefield accuracy and benchrest accuracy. The AR design is capable of extreme accuracy, far surpassing the AK. However this is only acheved in a rifle with very precise tolerances. A match rifle. Such a rifle is scrap for the battlefield. The AK is capable of 2-4" accuracy depending on make of rifle and ammo used. This my friends is quite enough to place consistant shots in the vitals of any human to a distance of 300yds. What does this mean, if you know how to aim and shoot your AK you will kill your target every time.

The second quam with bullet is weight of projectile. The 556 round is known as a fragmenting round. This is only the case in old no longer in use 55gr bullets not with the current 62gr green tip round. The old 55gr would indeed fragment if the target was struck while the projectile was traveling at a certain velocity and above. This generally is out to about 150m in a 20" barrel and just under 100m In a 14.5" barrel. The 62gr green tip ( Current use ammo ) is far less deadly in this regard. This bullet will out penetrate the old 55 gr FMJ as the current uses a hardened steel core in shape of Cylinder. This round would be deadlier if use against an enemy wearing armor. In current operation where enemy is un armored the 55 FMJ would be a better choice.

The 124gr 7.62 AK round is much deadlier that the 62gr AR round. It has much more Knock down power and will out penetrate the 62gr round any way you stack it. This is a big advantage in most all regards. The only downside is bullet drop. The 5.56 round is much flatter shooting. However in combat engagement distances of under 300yd which is about 85% this diff is wih out much benefit. Either round sighted in at 100 yd will hit vitals out to 300 with a dead hold. This is no hold over needed.

The Current 5.45 AK 74 round negates many drawbacks of the 7.62mm AK 47 round. These being bullet drop, accuracy, recoil, and amount of rounds carried. This Round is capable of 1.5' 100m accuracy. I can attest to this in my Arsenal AK-74 Rifle. The only downside to this round is knockdown power. It shares exact battlefield energy with the 5.56 round.

I have tested this round closely to the 62gr 5.56. In comparison the 5.45 AK round will outpenetrate the 5.56 round in all tested materials. Meat, wood, steel. The penetration advance of the 5.45 round is even more superior when the 5.56 is fired from a 14.5" barrel AR. When shot thru harder materials like thick meat or armor, the 5.45 round tumbles or goes through materal sideways greatly increasing wound cavity. This is a clear advantage when a target is shot wearing armor. This tumbling is caused by a hollow cavity in the tip of the 5.45 round found in the 7N6 Loading.

[Macgregor]

The stoner 64 was the stoner LMG right?
Good gun, one sold onling awhile back for something like $200,000.
Big number even for class 3.

[sharpshooter996]

This was an error of mine, In previous post i was referring to the Stoner 63 design. It has been updated but the same design principals in the Rob Arm M96 Rifle.

I think the LMG offering's in this rifle were belt fed, heavy barrel variant. There were some in 5.56mm and 7.62mm.

[LoganSackett]

Sharpshooter996: I agree with you about the 62 gr and the 55 gr ammo. To me, it is foolish to use AP ammo on soft targets. The hardened penetrator zips right through and doesn't fragment like the 55 gr would. The whole point of the use of the 5.56 NATO is it's fragmentation capabilities. When you take that away, you're punching .22 caliber holes. I really wish our military would use HP or soft tip ammo. We never signed the Hague convention (which banned the use of expanding bullets in war) and our enemies sure as hell don't care about it. Why not give our guys the best possible round for them to do their job? Makes no sense to me. At the very least, let them have the fragmenting M855 instead of the 62 gr armor piercing.

[sharpshooter996]

Well said Logan. I feel the same way about the adoption of the 9mm round. In FMJ use it is a poor man stopper. Wish out troops were using the 40S&W. I feel this to be a much better choice, even if restricted to FMJ rounds.

Nutnfancy on youtube has made some wonderful reviews on the Beretta 92 that is in service with our Military. I feet his comments are very accurate.

I also am quite excited about the 6.8 Rem round. Although I do not see this round making its way into wide spread use. This would require a total overhaul of all of the M-16 family weapons that are in use. I think for this reason it is going to be a long long time before we see a change from the current Colt M-16 5.56mm weapon system. And then if you see how poor our economy is doing right now, and if a Dem get elected, i see nothing but cuts being made in spending to our military. So hold on boys to your darling Colt, and do what our boys have always done. Adapt and overcome.

[LoganSackett]

Agreed once again. The 6.8 would be a great improvement. I believe that it is in use with special operations units, although I can't remember if that is true. They have also started using the 7.62x39 round in the M-16 family for special operations due to the fact that those guys may be forced to use captured enemy ammo. I haven't heard anything about the performance of those rounds, although the 7.62x39 is known for being a good all around performer. The 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendel sound like they could be the future of the military There have been many reports of poor stopping power in the 5.56 weapons. However, I don't know if that is due to the AP rounds that they were using, or the caliber itself. The bullet can be changed with no problems. If it is the caliber itself, it could be a problem. Every M-16 or M-4 would need to be changed and every 5.56 round would now be useless. Obviously, the change would have be incremental. I haven't heard much about the 9mm that is good either. .45 ACP for the win.

In the meantime, dear politicians, take the handcuffs off of our military and let them use hollow points.:mad:

Or at least M855.:thumb:

[Macgregor]

Personally, I think we should go back to a full size rifle cartraige like .308 an issue smg's to a larger amount of troops.

[sharpshooter996]

The main complaints coming from the lack of stopping power of the 5.56 is when it is in use in the M-4 rifle. The 14.5" barrel knocks down velocity so the effective range of the gun is dropped down dramatically. Couple this with a non frag round and you just punch .22 cal holes in your target. When shot out of the standard 20" barrel M-16 killing power of the 5.56 is quite a bit better.

With well placed shots the 5.56 will kill every time frag round or not. but in cqb conditions when you do not have time for a well aimed shot your enemy can be left with enough so he can return fire and possibly kill you or you buddy. Not a good scenario any way you look at it.

If we were using the 6.8 rem or hell even the 7.62x39mm this would not be the problem. This is precisely the reason the 6.8 was developed, to over come the dismal stopping ability that has been seen with the 5.56 cartridge.

I think in a prev post i was a little to one harsh in criticism of the AR-15 rifle series. I did not tell all of the very good thing about it.

There are many thing i really like about the AR-15. Many that are superior to the AK weapons system.

-controls are in position for easier manipulation
-Muzzle climb/recoil control
-It is a modular system
-accuracy capability

So which is the better battle rifle? Well it depends on who you ask. In a well trained, highly disciplined unit you could say the AR-15 is better. In a less tech and modernized army the AK would prob be superior. If you are in dirty sandy cond or are going to be engaged with enemy for extended pd of time or on a long mission where constant upkeep and maintenance can not be preformed the AK is going to be a much better choice. If you are going to be shooting thru any type of barrier, like car, walls or doors the AK with its heavier bullet will be better. If you are going to be standing off your enemy at distances of 300m + the AR-15 will be clearly better.

I guess what im saying is for 7 out of 10 combat engagements the AK will prob be the prefered weapon. Many experts say that if we were using the AK-47 in Vietnam, the war might have gone differently. And there is no other weapon in history that has racked up a higher body count or been used in more places and abused more and still functioned that with the AK-47.

[BimotaBoy]

The U.S. military has no one to blame on this subject except itself. When the M-16
5.56 combination showed up in Vietnam, the weapon was iffy but the cartridge was devastating. The troops all made comments on the damage that was caused by this little round. When it came out the 5.56 bullet was 45 gr. and the barrel of the M-16 had a 1 in 14 twist. As this weapon became more mainstream and the military wanted to have one rifle do it all.(replace the M-14) To do this the M-16 needed to shoot farther than its original design, so the bullets started to get more heavy.
Well to shoot these heavy bullets (50gr) the barrel had to have more twist 1 in 12. This has gone on to the point that you can now get 75gr. bullets out of a 1 in 7 twist barrel, creating a supercharged ice pick! This is great for punching holes in paper at 600m.(Marine Qual.) but not for punching flesh at under 50m or less.(90% of firefights)
:headbang:

[Macgregor]

I firmly believe in replacing all guns with spears.
Urban warfare would be epic.

[Macgregor]

Googled m10 bayonet and this popped up.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k132/pseudonominus/m10-6.jpg
Would love to have this set up in od, although I have never really been a fan of the sig style stocks.

[BimotaBoy]

I will just use one of my own!:D

[kiah]

I will just use one of my own!:D

How do you like that K-VAR setup? I thought about trying to fit one to a Saiga.

[Macgregor]

I will just use one of my own!:D


Is that FAL a DS arms?

Is that AUG from MSAR?

[BimotaBoy]

The K-VAR was bought like that minus the rails and stuff I took off. It shoots about the same as my older romainian(reliable but not the most accurate)
The FAL is from a STG kit I did with a Imbel reciever, and stock and new internals from Falcon Arms.
And the AUG is from MSAR.(very FUN!)

[Macgregor]

Man I wish I could afford MSAR.
Like I said, I can only afford Mosin, Simonov, and uncle Kalashnikov untill I turn 18.

Infact, I have quite a wad of dough in my pocket right now.
Thinking of getting a good shooter this weekend at a gun show, or should I get a surefire, TAD gear pack, and pay off my debt on the Koster Bushmaster I ordered?

[LoganSackett]

Get anything yet Mac?


The gun shop that is 2 min away from me is closing. 30% off everything except guns and ammo.:mad:

[Macgregor]

Read here. :D
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=592695

Going to get optics today.

[Macgregor]

I bought a Nikon 3-9x, don't have my rifle with me right now so I can't tell you what it is but it cost about $300.
Pretty nice scope, I was reading billboards from a couple k yards away tonight, not that I could reach out that far.
Now I'm really broke.

I almost, instead of buying a scope traded in the rem700 and shelled out 300 to get a used one of these without a scope in .308.
http://www.bigskyguns.com/Tika-Tikka_T3_Tactical.html
Now that I see the price I wish I did.

[LoganSackett]

Is that FAL a DS arms?

Is that AUG from MSAR?

Looks like an MSAR to me. Is that an ACOG? I always wanted one, but never had the courage to spend that much.

[Macgregor]

Damn, I'm so conflicted about what semiauto to buy.
Or to buy a semi auto at all that is.

Though, looking at the current prices(both the aks and sks prices have jumped $300 since the election) maybe I sould hurry and buy whatever I can.

[LoganSackett]

Damn, I'm so conflicted about what semiauto to buy.
Or to buy a semi auto at all that is.

Though, looking at the current prices(both the aks and sks prices have jumped $300 since the election) maybe I sould hurry and buy whatever I can.

An Ar15 will probably be worth more in the future, but they cost more than AKs do now. I've seen Romanian AKMs for $600. I got mine for only $300 half a year ago. AR15 prices have not jumped nearly as much. The reason is that Romanian AKs (the cheapest) are all made from parts kits that were imported for years. Then the ATF banned the barrels. Now no more kits can come in with the barrel. Consequently, that raised the price of the rifles and caused a panic buy of the kits. Now a complete AK kit costs about $300. Figure in about $200 in other parts and labor, plus another couple hundred for because of the election panic, and you can see how the companies are raising the prices. AKs cost nearly as much as an AR15 now. If the parts kits didn't dry up, they would be a lot lower.

I'd get an AR15. More gun for only a little more money. They will probably increase in value too.

[Macgregor]

Luckly I have afew friends that can do CNC machining and mill barrels. ;)

[LoganSackett]

Luckly I have afew friends that can do CNC machining and mill barrels. ;)

That's a big advantage. I don't think there are any domestic companies making AK barrels, so the price of fully built AK's will likely remain high. If your friend wants to make some money, tell him to machine some and sell them. There's a large demand for them.:thumb:

[Macgregor]

They probly want to ride under the radar.
After all, if the SHTF they would probly be stamping out truckloads of stens. :D
LMAO

[me2]

I dont want to be a pita, but the plate on the right in the penetration pics is marked as 6061 T6 or T8 aluminum.

[LoganSackett]

Hmmm..I must have missed that. Thank you!:thumb:

I do have a pic of a steel plate that was penetrated by the AR somewhere. I'll go see if I can find it.

[LoganSackett]

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/TargetsJuly08002.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/TargetsJuly08007.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj255/LanceKilkenny/TargetsJuly08008.jpg

Obviously, some of the holes were drilled with a drill press. The messy holes are from bullets. It's bent because I shot it with 7.62x39 from an AK-47 that failed to penetrate.

The bar is 3/8'' mild steel.

[me2]

Impressive for a .22, and we know it will penetrate 3/8" of aluminum armor. So out of morbid curiosity, is it the bullet penetrates, then tumbles and fragments, or just the tumbling does the damage?

[LoganSackett]

Impressive for a .22, and we know it will penetrate 3/8" of aluminum armor. So out of morbid curiosity, is it the bullet penetrates, then tumbles and fragments, or just the tumbling does the damage?

It generally penetrates first, then tumbles and gets torn to pieces due to the extreme velocity. It does vary, however, based on what the target is and what type and weight of bullet you are using. This site is great for real-life ballistics data.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm:)