Busse Skinny ASH-1 and Fallkniven A2 TEST

[out5yder]

Motivation

Fallkniven statement: "The knowledge allows us to dare say that our knives are the strongest, serial manufactured, stainless steel knives in the world!" and about the A2: "The model A2 is an example of a knife of extreme durability that will never let you down, a knife that can stand up under incredible strain.". The composition has something from the Japanese myth of laminated multi-layer steels and the performance of Fallkniven A1 that I saw on knifetests.com really impressed me. It was the strongest knife of that size. I liked it more than the ScrapYard S6 because it didn't roll and considering in non-destruction tests it should perform better.
Regarding Busse Combat, INFI impressed me and attracted me for a long time. And the performance of FFBM on knifetests.com shown me everything I could expect from a survival knife. But all these years I have avoided to buy a Busse knife considering them too thick and too heavy for my needs (of course, I'm talking about medium-large knives). After I chipped the edge of the Fallkniven A2 on rock impacts and saw how bad it chipped, I finally decided to give INFI a try. And by coincidence, exactly at that period I saw for the first time at Busse Combat a medium-large knife which was not so heavy, thick and wide as most others. "You asked for it, now here it is, YOUR SKINNY ASH !". This was the statement regarding the "new Skinny ASH-1". So, it was exactly what I was looking for: a knife enough hunchbacked to be a confortable cutter and chopper, but enough straight to be good as a gab, prybar, for throwing and for stabbing; enough big and heavy to be a good chopper, but enough small and handfull to work for slicing and fine work. I didn't like it's look in the picture, but it seemed very functional.

First Impressions

I got my new A2 out of the box and noticed it had a very beautiful finish and a very beautiful cuting edge convex and shaving sharp. I just moved it on my hand to shave a bit of hair and I was very satisfied with it. It wasn't able to cut the hair without pinch, but it was exactly what I expected from a big multi-purpose knife. I was crazy to find out how much it will stay that sharp during the use. I put it on the weighting machine and it was 370 grams, exactly the weight in the specifications. One thing which captivated my atention was the disproportion between the very thin edge and the very thich spine.
I got my Skinny ASH-1 out of the shipping pack. It was already introduced into the sheath that I had commanded together with it (a kydex sheath made by MashedCat). At bussecompanystore was stated it weights about 14 ounces. This means 400 grams, which means more than my Fallkniven A2, which I considered the upper weight limit I can accept. I pulled it out and saw the blade had a very open angle edge, a very thick grinding with a border starting 1 millimeter from the edge. That cutting angle was too thick for an axe too. When I peeked it with my hand, the Skinny ASH felt medium-weight, and I was sure it is less heavy then the A2. I put it on the weighting machine and I got a shock: it was 426 grams. I couldn't believe it was heavier than A2, so I weighted it several times, I weighted the A2 again to see if my weighting machine is not defect. Very impressed about it, it seems weightless in the hand. I was pretty sure it can cut nothing with that edge and I planned to regrind it and sharpen it at an angle close to that the A2 had from the factory, but (only) a bit thicker. I cut a slice of bread and I was impressed it did cut better than my kitchen knives with that bad factory edge. I considered then that I might not have to resharpen it. So, I got a wood stick and tried a few hits to chop it. I hitted easy at first, and then harder and harder. It obviously needed a significantly increased efort to bite the wood as deap as the A2 could do with a soft hit. So, I decided to resharpen it (including reprofiling).
So, I will start my review with the sharpening and I have to say in all the following tests the Busse Skinny ASH-1 was used with the edge reprofiled and resharpened by me and not with the factory edge, while the Fallkniven A2 was tested with the factory edge.
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[out5yder]

Sharpening

When I started to seriously sharpen the two knives for the first time, the A2 was badly chiped on three quarters of the edge and the Skinny ASH-1 was new having a non sharp factory edge.
It took me two days and a half with a Fallkniven DC3 stone to eat enough material from the A2 blade so that all points of the edge came at the same line as the chips. I only left there the depest chip which was 2 millimeters deep and I had not enough patience to get that out too. When almost all the blade length was fixed, I started to model the angle, then changed from the diamond stone to the ceramic one and went for a shaving sharp edge. I was really impressed with what I achieved. At some point, a thin filigree of steel detached from the edge. It was about one inch long and few times thinner than a hair from my had. It was like a rincklet, so I saw this VG-10 has some ductility after all... I pushed less on the stone after that and continued with lighter and lighter pushes on the diamonded stone. What I achieved after a few minutes was a really shaving sharp, very close to a shaving blade on sharpness even it had a much open angle. I'm not an expert in sharpening, so I was really satisfied with my performance on the A2 blade. I have to say I had never sharpened a blade easier or better than that before.

I started to sharpen my new Skinny ASH-1 on the diamond stone side of my Fallkniven DC3, without pushing too hard (only to test what happens). I noticed the stone started to get green from the coating, so I stopped. The steel had not even a scratch on it at that point. I was convinced I will not be able to regrind that edge only with that diamond stone. So started to think about something else. I'm not an expert in sharpening and I only have some sharpening stones (DC3 is the better one from what I have) and no other sharpening tools. I went to the market and bought a cheap abrasive stone intended for mowing sharpening and returned home. I started to move the knife on it easy, keeping the angle constant and not pushing hard. I know what Jerry Busse says about INFI steel (that it never chips), but I was steel worried about it with that rough stone. I noticed only some scratches on the steel at that point, so I started to push harder. Finally I pushed as hard as I could and my cheap abrasive stone started to eat from the steel without chipping it. I kept the angle constant and after about half an hour one side of the blade was ready, having a pretty straight, plain sharpened area at the edge. Another half of an hour and the other side was grinded the same way. Then, I did few more moves with a bit different angle, so that I made the edge a bit convex. Then I changed to the diamond stone and polished it, and then on the ceramic stone. Finally, I achieved the most beautiful sharpened blade made by myself. I couldn't believe it to my eyes that I did that. It was almost perfect and shinny as a mirror. However, while trying to make it shaving sharp, I had some problems. It simply didn't want to shave. I insisted more with the ceramic stone keeping the angle as constant as I could and finally it shaved the hair of the hand, but with pinches. I haven't notice any small piece of steel detaching from the INFI blade, so I was far behind achieveing the same level of sharpness achieved on the VG-10 blade of the A2. Anyway, I achieved a hand hair shaving blade in about 5 or 10 minutes. That was more than enough for a hard use knife, so I stopped sharpenning at that point.

After the entire "Knife vs rock impacts test", the Skinny ASH-1 had some damage on the edge. Not major, but damage, a combination of rolls, chips, dents and pound outs. I started to restablish the edge with the diamonded stone and after about 10 minutes the edge was realigned and was able to cut again. After 3 quarters of an hour with the diamonded stone, the edge was really sharp again but however, it still had some dents. I used it like that for few days and then I used again the mowing sharpening abrasive stone, the diamonded stone and the ceramic one, one after another and give it a perfect edge in about an hour.
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[out5yder]

Cutting

I tried to peel out an apple, cut a slice of bread, cut a slice of water melon, slice and make small cubes from a cucumber.
While peeling out the apple, I haven't noticed any difference between the two knives.

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While cutting a slice of bread the Skinny ASH was a bit better. At this point I was a bit surprised, because I expected the Skinny ASH to be much better after sharpening, but there was only a small difference of how it cuts into bread with the thick factory edge and how it cuts into the same bread after sharpened. I think the (a bit) hunchbacked blade design with the proeminent edge pushed far in front of the handle level is the feature which enables this knife to cut better than many knives regardless of how sharp it is.

While cutting a slice of water melon, I had serious problems with the A2, caused by its thickness. I only started the cut and the thick and rigid peel of the melon crashed out as soon as it meet the thickness of the blade. I started again and did my best with the angle and motion to cut a slice of melon. I finally cut the entire melon in slices, but very ugly slices, with the peel bursted in all cases and a lot of juice flowing through my hands down. I got another water melone and started to cut it with the Skinny ASH. I could cut a slice without any crash. This was not confortable either, due to its width which doesn't let you conduct the cut and correct its direction after it gets into. And the Skinny ASH is not a thin slicer either. But anyway, its thickness is at the limit and it can cut slices from the melone in a decent way. Sorry I have no pictures at this point, I just hadn't the camera with me when I sliced the melone.

While cuting the cucumber, the A2 performed well. Even it's thick, it slides easy through the cucumber and cuts it. If you are used to its thickness, you feel it confortable at this task. Regarding the Skinny ASH I was expecting it to be better, but it's not. Again its width bothers when trying to correct the direction of the cut during the cut. And the coating is also a bit of a hinder in the way of the cut. Anyway, the difference between the two knives at cuting cucumber is not significant.

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[out5yder]

Balance


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[out5yder]

Chopping

I went with the A2 in the woods up on the mountains to test its chopping ability. I started with a deciduous branch found on the road (don't know exactly what wood it was). The mountain was limestone and the path under my feet had limestones covered by soil in it. So, I put the branch down on the path to see what happens if I chop there. The rocks in the ground were all limestone and they were covered by soil. As this was not a destruction test and I only intended to see what happens if I chop without taking exagerate care of the knife, I didn't have any intention to hurt the knife and I tried to hit the branch hard, but to stop the hand and knife before hiting the ground. No serious impact with the ground. I hitted with rare, izolated moves, so that I can observe what happens. I was surprised to see a lot of chips about one millimeter deep coming out on the edge at this point. Excepting the chips, the blade cut the hell out of the wood and it bites very very good in wood. Then I went down on the same mountain and chopped a lot of dead trees and branches, most of them pine and fir. I tried to hit the wood with the not-chipped portions of the blade, because the chipped portion was not usable any more. It chopped in a brilliant way everything. I hitted as hard as I could a few times and then inspected the edge again. No change. Then I hitted few times in an unproper way and as hard as I could (not perfectly perpendicular on the wood) and it resiled few times. I inspected the edge again and there was no deviation, no missalignment, no chip, nothing. I was surprised to see it was not even dull at that point. It could still cut paper. Then, I went to another place, got another deciduous branch (thicker than the first one) which was stack on the ground and could not be moved. It was stack on a slope, about 10 centimeters from the ground and it required a very awkward position to chop it. I wanted to chop it anyway, taking into consideration I might flow in a similar situation some day when I might have no time to look for another branch. I chopped it hard until I finally cut it. My position at that point was very awkward. I noticed that I hitted hard two rocks from the ground at some point. The result was that I had the branch detached, but the edge of the knife very bad damaged (unable to cut anything any more). I'm almost sure at that point it also chipped in wood, because all the rocks were hit with the portion of the blade close to the tip. No rock reached the mid portion of the edge; and the edge was chipped on all its length, excepting 4 centimeters near the handle. There was no kind of rolls, pound outs or dents; only chips! Bad chips. Anyway, I think it is to be expected at some point for a stainless steel to be weaker on some areas than the toughest tool steels, but the huge disproportion between the too thin edge and the too thick spine of the A2 knife had a contribution in the failure, because that thin edge is not able to handle the power and weight of the thick spine during hard chopping in hard wood. Sometimes when I travel on the Danube side and in the delta, I use to chop wood from the bank, which floats on the Danube for days and is impregnated with sand during the floating and then it's thrown on the bank and get completely dried by the sun. That's really hard wood and I wouldn't rely on my A2 to chop that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPiEvmK-ZYI

I got my Skinny ASH-1 and went into a large yard. I got a poplar big branch segment (similar with some of those chopped and batoned with the A2) and start chopping it. I hitted slowly, with clean and rarely moves, changing the force aplied to see how it bites. It proved to be a very friendy tool, much easier to be controled during the strikes (direction, power, motion) than the A2. I started with soft hits, and then gradually increased the force. I chopped the first branch more in the air and the second one directly on the ground, just as I like. After I chopped few times making several segments from the branch, I noticed I haven't even touched the ground with it. This was the consequence of its superior design which grants superior control during the hits. However, I wanted to hit the ground too, to see the effect, and I did so. It had nothing, the edge was 100% intact (at least at the level it could be observed with the eyes and with a finger touch); the soil was normal with prints of brick and concrete, I hadn't inspected it for rocks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrH37WU9Wk

The most notable difference between the two knives in regards to chopping is the A2 has a ballance and design more hammer-oriented, so that it's very easy to understand it and to learn how to hit to make it bite optimal into the wood. The Skinny ASH is more sophisticated and you need a special motion and move to make it bite optimal into the wood. You need to play for a while with it and study it a bit to understand how it works. When hitting hard and in an optimal way and the branch is backed by a support, the Skinny ASH-1 penetrates about 3 centimeters and a half in my use. While the A2 when hitting hard and in an optimal way and the branch is backed by a support penetrates only about 2 centimeters deep into the same kind of wood. When hitting in a soft way, the A2 bites somehow about one centimeter or less. The Skinny ASH hitting soft will not penetrate at all. So, I think it depends on the way you use it. The A2 is better for those who like to hit fast and continously like a machine-gun, but if you know how to hit optimally with the Skinny ASH it will chop more with less effort and maybe in less time. One important part of its design is the piece encircled in the picture below. It does not let the hand slide out of the handle even if you hit with the hand relaxed and, furthermore, it can be used to increase the speed of the hits by backing it with the hand during the hits.
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[out5yder]

Batoning

After restoring the edge damaged by the rock impacts mentioned above (at chopping test), I went into a poplar forest (the closer forest) to check out how well my Fallkniven A2 can split wood. I found there a big dead branch and it was perfect. It still had some leafs on it, so it was not dead for a long time. I chopped it fast providing few wood segments. Then I batonned them and I was pleased to find out what I had never experienced before: my own knife was sliding through the branch like through a piece of cheese. I was hitting the spine of the A2 very light and I didn't even feel any resistence from the branch. Of course poplar is a soft wood; but I still was very impressed. I just felt that the wood just wanted to split in front of the A2 edge. In this case, the thickness, the convex edge and the profile of the blade are obvious advantages. I can say this is the best wood splitter I've ever used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEHtTzfCSDY

After I batoned with the Skinny ASH that branch, I batoned the segments. I was expecting it to be significantly behind the A2 in this task, because of the inferior thickness and I was expected even to stack into the branch because of the coating which is not slipery. But I didn't notice any difference in batoning performance between the two knives. It performed as good as the A2 or anyway very very close to it. At least on that kind of branches both of the knives batonned the same. I tried to make the same with other knives with different thicknesses and different edge geometries, but none of those performed so good as these two convex edges knives did. However, if I would be to say which is better for batoning between the two, I would say the A2 has an advantage with its superior blade length, which may enable it to baton through thicker woods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrH37WU9Wk

[out5yder]

Carving, modeling and tip work

While peeling out the apple, I also tried to carv a little bit, in order to peel out the concav area near the tail of the aple. This time I used the Shinny ASH first because I was curious how good is that choil. I was pleased to find out that this knife became weightless in the hand (more than it already was) and the grip enabled my hand to get close to the tip and control it very easy. After that, I took the A2 and tried the same on another apple. I thought I would be able to control its tip too if I peek it from the blade, close to the tip. But that was almost impossible to carv with it that way. It was also impossible to control the tip with the hand on the handle grip, since the blade is too long and straight, and the tip is too far from the handle.

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Besides the awkward grip on the A2 blade in order to control the tip, I felt this also dangerous for my fingers. So, the conclusion is obvious. But I considered to make something more complex with the Skinny ASH, to see if it is really suitable for tip work.
After batoning with the Skinny ASH, I got one batoned piece and started to model a spoon, to see how it works. Some time ago I saw on a website some pictures with a spoon made "only with a Nexux Tito". So, I wanted to do the same only with my Skinny ASH-1. I peeked one of the pieces previously batoned, a longitudinal quarter of a segment of the branch and started to model it. During the modeling I remembered I should hit some rocks with the edge too, so I hitted some small rocks with the blade (see the "Edge vs Rock impacts" section) and then I continued to model the spoon until finished it without resharpening the knife.

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[out5yder]

Playing

I did more tests with the A2 when it was new, with the factory edge. I call this playing because I did these only to accomodate with this knife and to become familiar with it and I don't consider this relevant for everyday use. The most impresive performance here i think it was the bottle cut. That is something I saw on youtube other people do with their knives and I did that with my knife too. I put a 2 liter plastic water bottle on a soil knoll. First time I hitted near the bottle neck to see if it cuts the plastic there (which was thicker than the rest of the bottle). The knife went through it in one motion without any problem. The bottle remained vertical on the soil and it was not overturned. Then, I hitted second time, the neckless bottle, which was now soft, flexible and with no pressure from inside. I hitted again, on its middle this time (which is soft, flexible and very deformable). And I was pleased to see it was cut again without turn down or loose too much from its water (this mean the knife traversed it so fast that the bottle had no time to bend, overturn or deform). Of course, this depends on the way I hit, the speed, impact etc. But I couldn't do that with other knives. I didn't play with the Skinny ASH yet in this way to see how it performs, but I will do that soon and I will post the results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4attevdtmo

[out5yder]

Edge vs Rock impacts

So, after chopping with the Skinny ASH-1, my wife got a small piece of concrete (the size of a finger), and she hitted it only to show me no steel can stand without chipping while hitting rocks or concrete. She hitted twice and nothing happened, then she hitted harder the third time and the concrete piece broke. The edge of the Skinny ASH only had some small (almost not observable) dents which could be felt by driving the finger on the edge. But that was only concrete; and rocks are different stuff! So, I took some small rocks and hitted them repeatedly with the edge, not very hard, but in full, until I broke one rock and chipped another. Those were the hardest rocks I could achieve (of course, this is because I couldn't achieve a diamond). The edge got a combination of dents, rolls (to be more precise, I would say missalignment because they were not real rolls) and I think it had some small chips too (not sure, because the damage was very small, only against the fine edge, and it was slightly observable). When I watched the film, I realised I hitted a lot on those small rocks, but not really hard. So, it was night and I was in the house. I got three rocks from my backpack (some of those that I carry with me to use with the sling, a bit smaller than a hen egg). I hitted them hard, concentrating on impacts. And hitted perpendicular few times, then tried to experience some other angles to see what happens. Below you have some zoomed in images to see exactly how the edge was looking like.

And below is the entire video, including the letter hits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsaQRFYO2_s

Fallkniven A2 (to see the entire video look at my chopping test, where the A2 hitted the rocks)
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Skinny ASH-1
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[out5yder]

Knife as Hammer

The thick spine and the weight distributed mostly to the blade and less to the handle make the A2 a good hammer when you don't have a real one. I used it first to hammer some nails and then to break some peanuts. It works beautiful for a knife spine! Because it's weight is distributed you feel it like a real hammer when doing that. I've noticed no problems on the knife spine, not even scratches after hammering the nails. I tried to do the same with the Skinny ASH, but there was no way. It is simply too thin to work as a hammer and the coating makes its thin spine a bit convex too. It was simply an awkward operation with the Skinny ASH but not impossible. With some more attempts and wrong hits it finally worked too; but not better than most knives of this kind would. The A2 has a weight distribution and plain spine thickness that simply begs you to use it as a hammer. The coating of the Skinny ASH-1 also got scraped where it hitted the nail. Anyway, I think the coating will be most of it out of the blade after more usage, so I'm not too concerned about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBzfkfbZAPA

[out5yder]

The Handle

The handle of the Fallkniven A2 is made from kraton, which is a cheap kind of rubber and, most important, it is not resistent at all. I was a bit dissapointed about it, because it is currently looking like after the war even it was not the direct target of the stress during my use. Regarding the shape and geometry of the handle, I like it very much. It's rectangular, almost like the tang of the blade it covers, but more fassonated and very ergonomic, being very confortable in the hand. I like very much the simplicity of this knife, and that simplicity is encountered in the handle design too.
The micarta handle of the Skinny ASH-1 is awsome. I haven't notice any scratch on it after my use and it looks like new. It is also very ergonomic. It's wider and much different from the one of the A2, but I'm surprised both of them seem the same confortable in the hand regardless they are so different. And finally, the thing I like most on this handle of the Skinny ASH-1 is that piece of something you see in the above picture encircled with red color. It not only doesn't allow the hand to slide out of the handle while chopping, even if you keep the hand relaxed on the handle, but it allows you to increase the power of the hits and optimize the motion of the hits. This handle also grants the possibility to add it a "D" guard. I don't like "D" guards, but a "D" guard could be a good feature for chopping and for eventuality I will ever need it as a fighting knife, I like the possibility to add one.

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http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2952643498_bf54249d72.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3282/2952643446_e5110ab70c.jpg?v=0

[out5yder]

The Sheath

The standard sheath of the A2 is a leather one. I didn't like the kydex sheath from Fallkniven, so I have the standard leather one which looks better made. It's a well made leather sheath from thich leather. Nothing impressive, I saw better leather sheaths, but it's well made anyway. What I don't like on it is that it is balancing each time I make a step with it on the belt and it's very bothering when I try to run or make complex moves with it on my belt. Another think I don't like is that it needs two hands and many moves to pull the knife out of the sheath. Finally there is something I like - the sheath is simetric, so that you can plug the knife in any position and place it on any side of the belt.
The Skinny ASH-1 comes basically with no sheath. But I could buy together with it the kydex sheath (made by MashedCat) from bussecompanystore.com. This sheath is very well made. It's not something very beautifull, but it fits the knife exactly. The knife makes a "click" when entered and it stays unmovable in the sheath. This sheath has a Tek-lock which can be fixed on the belt and it doesn't balance while moving, if the belt is wide enough. Anyway, I think the tek-lock would be beter to be fixed somehow upper on the sheath. From this sheath, the Skinny ASH-1 can be introduced and extracted with one hand and one move. This is what I like most.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/2952640436_40c117b0dc.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3205/2952641828_963afbbbff.jpg?v=0

[out5yder]

Price

I bought the Fallkniven A2 from the Fallkniven local distributor in Romania (the one that is listed on the Fallkniven website) and it costed me 1100 RON which was approximatively the equivalent of 310 euro or 450$ at that time.
I bought the Busse Skinny ASH-1 from bussecompanystore.com and costed me a total of 394$ (302$ the knife + 50$ the sheaths + 42$ for international shipping).
Of course, the price varies from country to country depending on many factors, in most of the cases the Fallkniven A2 being cheaper than the Busse Skinny ASH-1 even in my case was the contrary.


Warranty
Fallkniven general warranty:
"We offer a two-year guarantee covering material defects and manufacturing defects, i.e. defects that arise during manufacture but are not discovered until the knife is in use. A defect is generally discovered within half a year, not after several years. We repair or replace the knife. The guarantee is not valid if the knife has been used incorrectly — the knife is a precision cutting implement and is not to be used for levering or prising. Discolouring caused by blood, saltwater or other corrosive substances is not covered by the guarantee, neither are broken blade points. The sheath will be replaced if faults in the original manufacturing are found."
Fallkniven A2 specific warranty:
"The warranty is valid for the original owner and from the date of the purchase. Please save the receipt.
What is covered: All parts proven to be defective in materials or workmanship. We rapair or replace witout charge. The knife must be sent to us prepaid and insured.
What is not covered: Misuse, lack of maintenance, rust and normal wear and tear. The sheath is not covered. A brown, coarse-grained fracture generally indicates a tempering or material defect, a gray smooth surface shows that the knife has been stressed beyond its capacity."
Busse Combat warranty:
"We guarantee against any and all unintentional MAJOR damage forever."
Jerry Busse


To be continued...
Stay close, it's not over. I intend to do more tests in regards to throwing, making a spear, stabing, knife as gab, corrosion resistence and many other tests and I will constantly edit this post adding more stuff.


Best Regards

An outsider

[Shaolin]

All I see are red x's.

[out5yder]

The images are fixed.
I hope you can see them now.

Sorry for the incovenience.

[The Cameraman]

Great stuff, man!! I must say I found it all very informative. You could definitely use a better cameraman :D:D. Just kidding you, ofcourse. It's really good of you to take the time to record and post all your work with two knives that a lot of people are really, really interested in. Noss, someone out there knows how much work you put into each and every test.
Out5yder, I don't know if you posted your findings in any other knife forums, but here you won't ever have to worry about members jumping all over you for putting your knives through some stress, and dare I say it, abuse, because all our members here really want to know what these tools can stand up against. Here, we want to see a knife get used, not hung up on the wall and stared at :rolleyes:.
I'll keep checking back for updates to your tests. And definitely let me know if you need another cameraman because, just between you and me, I don't like the boss I have right now :D:D:D

And in the words of our immortal knife tester, "Let's continue" :rockon:

IN THE MARKET FOR ANOTHER CAMERAMAN GIG, THE EFFING CAMERAMAN

[culpeper]

Great job! Thank you very much for a nice write up on these knives.

[Shaolin]

Yes, I can see the pics now. Very nice review.

[lsutigers1010]

awsome test man

[338 Stalker]

Thanks for that :thumb: . That's just one of the reasons why I like Bussikin fixed blades. They just work!

[lafayette]

Great test. Thanks for the job, I supose you spend a lot of time doing this.
I had the opportunity to buy an ASH lately and I did not. What a pity ! I thought the blade was too small for my needs. Your test shows it is a very efficient cutter, even with a 5.5 inches blade.
Personnaly, I love fallkniven knives (I got the A1, the Odin and I just sold my A2 because I found the grind to thick). They are very sharp and easy to sharpen. Maybe That's why these knives are not so tough on rocks. Well, if I have to break a rock, I just won't use a knife... I agree with you about the kraton handle, it is a bit weak for such a blade

[miro44one]

Very detailed and informative test man, shows again that a Busse is definately worth the money:cool:

[The Cameraman]

I really like the fact that you included the blade to rock impacts. I use my knives for yard work rather then camping and there are times while chopping through tree limbs on my driveway that my blade edge ends up hitting against the concrete. So, I like to see how well an edge holds up in a situation like mine.

NOT AS ACCURATE A CHOPPER AS I WOULD LIKE TO BE, THE EFFING CAMERAMAN

[sharpshooter996]

Wonderful test out5yder. You sure put a lot of time into this test and evaluation, thanks for sharing it with us.

I own and have used both of these knives a lot. Not as destructive as you, but I understand why you did the rock test and the significance in can have. I share most all of the same feelings as you about these knives. You made many great points and observations.

Between the two, I am partial to the A2. It is a user knife, it just does what you want a knife of this size to do, and it does it with out weighing you down. It handles very well in the hand. It swings fast without tiring you, and its edge is very efficient. It has a good spine for batoning, good tip strength, with ability to penetrate, and it stay sharp for a long time under use. It is the easiest knife to sharpen when the time comes. A dull edge without damadge can be brought back most times on steel or ceramic rod. When it goes very dull sandpaper brings it back remarkable quick, then finish on stromp and ceramic. This has brough back an smooth shaving edge, that will bite into hard wood and tough fibers.

I am careful when i use my A2 not to pound it into the ground, I have hit the dirt with it going through wood during batoning and used it to cut spruce roots. I have not recieved and damage to my edge. If I were to hit the ground forcefully the results would be diff im sure. But I use my knife smart for the most part and use it with care. And it has made me very happy. I have used this knife to chop thru some of the hardest woods. Iron wood is one of the hardest in my area. When this wood has been dried it is very hard indeed. A workout on a heavy duty chainsaw. Some other very hard wood i have used the A2 on is dead pine knots. This stuff when dry is crazy hard. it is almost solid resin. mix this with the grain of the knots and you have a wood that will again work a sharp chainsaw. On both of these woods i have used my A2 to chop and chop hard. I have not every had a issue with chipping in wood.

The biggest complaint I have with the A2 is its handle is a little to short and becomes enoying at times with heavy chopping and like the Gummy bear grip on my Trail Master this one is in the same family. I would call this a Hard Gummy bear grip.

I ordered mine with a leather sheath and feel the same as you about it. It is classy and well made and im sure will last for years. I have though ordered and been using a Kydex sheath made by Eric from onscene tactical. It is a excellent sheath, that is both lightweight and impervious to the elements.

My feelings on my Skinny Ash have change some from the initial high I had when it was new to me. It is without a doubt a beautiful knife to the eye and hand. And Infi is wonderful steel. With lots of use with this knife i like it less and less as a user. Its blade is short for a decent woods knife. And its factory edge is very thick and does not cut most materials well. It will slice paper well and shave but when you need to cut into material its thick edge lets you down. With a reprofile this can be improved as with any knife, but when you do this you obviously looks edge strength as I found with both my Chopweiler and Skinny Ash. When used as a chopper in short time you will discover what they call Busse Pinkey. To hold in hand the handle on the Skinny ash is most comfy. But after extended or hard use it has a lot of hot spots.

I love my Busse Skinny Ash dont get me wrong. it is beautifully crafted and used some of the best steel in the world if not the best. But as a functioning tool it is not on top. Most owners of these knifes are after their collecting ability. They are great investments that will only increase in value over time. And when put under hard use nearly indestructable. But hard use and functionally are two different things.

After spending more and more time in the wild I have refined my loadout. In my area I like to carry my A2 or Trail Master. I find the blade on shorter knifes to be inferior for use with batoning. Even my Chopweiler only had a 6.5 cutting edge. This many times is too short for effective batoning. If you only require a fire for cooking of just warming up it is fine. But if you need to rely on your fire for warmth you want to cut bigger logs and this is not possible with a 6.5 cutting edge. This is where a larger blade comes into its own.

For most woods use I find a 4" blade just about perfect. It is big enough to baton small branches to get to dry wood, is great for woodworking as in bushcraft, Creates fuzzies better that a large survival knife, easier at least. Works well for small to big game hunting, and fishing. and can be carried on person with comfort where a large knife will not.

These are just my observations, hope they are helpful. Thanks again Out5yder for you detailed test and evaluation.

[out5yder]

My feelings on my Skinny Ash [...] And its factory edge is very thick and does not cut most materials well. It will slice paper well and shave but when you need to cut into material its thick edge lets you down.

I don't understand how you could cut paper and shave with the factory edge. I could cut nothing other than bread with the factory edge. That's why I reprofiled and sharpened it before making any test with it. Because the factory edge on the Skinny ASH is not an edge; it's thicker for an axe too and cannot cut anything. So, I think that is called not-sharpened factory knife.

Are you sure your knife which could shave with the factory edge that you are talking about is a Skinny ASH?

[Noss]

Wow !! lots of info. You put a lot of work into to this. Thanks a bunch. Great job on the spoon I don't have the patience for that.

Busse factory edges can vary I guess like all makers. My FFBM and both CGFBM's came shaving sharp and they have thick edges especially the FFBM but they came with fantastic out of the box edges.

Now the ASH-1 I have did not come shaving sharp and the grind is uneven and not perfectly straight. It has a slight re curve in it. It's not much but when placed up against a straight edge it can be clearly seen.


Great work on your tests. :rockon::thumb:

[sharpshooter996]

I don't understand how you could cut paper and shave with the factory edge. I could cut nothing other than bread with the factory edge. That's why I reprofiled and sharpened it before making any test with it. Because the factory edge on the Skinny ASH is not an edge; it's thicker for an axe too and cannot cut anything. So, I think that is called not-sharpened factory knife.

Are you sure your knife which could shave with the factory edge that you are talking about is a Skinny ASH?

Lol, Ya im sure it was the Skinny Ash. As Noss stated factory edges do vary. Take a sampling from any manufacture and you will see variances. Im sorry yours was so poor. Just trying to be fair and balanced.

[out5yder]

Anyway, the factory edge is not important. Any knife that is used for real has to be resharpened again and again during the use. So, what does it mean one more resharpening (even with reprofiling) when it's new?!


My feelings on my Skinny Ash have change some from the initial high I had when it was new to me. [...] its factory edge is very thick and does not cut most materials well. It will slice paper well and shave but when you need to cut into material its thick edge lets you down. With a reprofile this can be improved as with any knife, but when you do this you obviously looks edge strength as I found with both my Chopweiler and Skinny Ash. When used as a chopper in short time you will discover what they call Busse Pinkey. To hold in hand the handle on the Skinny ash is most comfy. But after extended or hard use it has a lot of hot spots.

Regarding the cutting ability I have never experienced your feeling. I have used (a lot) the A2 all the summer that has just past and I've been using the Skinny ASH for two months (did everything with it). I have never felt it's edge was about to let me down. Never. I feel it beter than the edge of the A2. Of corse, I'm talking about the edge I putted on it, not the factory one. I have on it a profile and edge close to the A2; how close it is I can't say because I sharpened it by hand, but it's close and cuts everything. It cuts as well as the A2 in any material and I have the feeling it's more durable in all areas (including edge retention). The only dissadvantage comparing to A2 is that it's more difficult to put a shaving sharp edge on it when sharpening by hand. In that area, the VG-10 yes, it is the champion of all knives I have ever sharpened. But in regards of durability, I've never felt the edge of the ASH will let me down in an area where the edge of the A2 doesn't (excepting rust resistence).

At this moment I'm deffinetely with the Skinny ASH, especially because it works better for me on chopping and it also can do the job of a smaller knife (while the A2 can't). Now I have used it for two months. If I'll feel something else after more time of use, I will keep you informed :thumb:

Thanks for your post. Very good to hear opinions from other people who have used the same knives. :)

[338 Stalker]

Again, awesome test bro. That pretty much sold me, but I have always been easily influenced :thumb:

[sharpshooter996]

Anyway, the factory edge is not important. Any knife that is used for real has to be resharpened again and again during the use. So, what does it mean one more resharpening (even with reprofiling) when it's new?!



Regarding the cutting ability I have never experienced your feeling. I have used (a lot) the A2 all the summer that has just past and I've been using the Skinny ASH for two months (did everything with it). I have never felt it's edge was about to let me down. Never. I feel it beter than the edge of the A2. Of corse, I'm talking about the edge I putted on it, not the factory one. I have on it a profile and edge close to the A2; how close it is I can't say because I sharpened it by hand, but it's close and cuts everything. It cuts as well as the A2 in any material and I have the feeling it's more durable in all areas (including edge retention). The only dissadvantage comparing to A2 is that it's more difficult to put a shaving sharp edge on it when sharpening by hand. In that area, the VG-10 yes, it is the champion of all knives I have ever sharpened. But in regards of durability, I've never felt the edge of the ASH will let me down in an area where the edge of the A2 doesn't (excepting rust resistence).

At this moment I'm deffinetely with the Skinny ASH, especially because it works better for me on chopping and it also can do the job of a smaller knife (while the A2 can't). Now I have used it for two months. If I'll feel something else after more time of use, I will keep you informed :thumb:

Thanks for your post. Very good to hear opinions from other people who have used the same knives. :)


I do feel the factory edge is improtant. Most people do not reprofile their knives, or do not have the skill or equiptment to do so. This is where I feel Fallkniven does an excellent job. From the knives I have used, Fallkniven puts a wonderful edge from the factory. Not to thick not to thin.

I agree totally with everything you said above, with only one exception. I never said the edge on the Skinny Ash would let me down or has, only in factory cutting ability biting deep into material. Once reprofiled it will out preform the A2 in both strength and edge retention. Although I have found edge retention and strength to be very good with the A2.

I also feel the Skinny will and does function better for smaller and delicate cutting tasks. Its a lot shorter blade. I find my ideal set up to be the A2 for larger wood processing and limb stripping, when in use with the Sawvivor, and I pair it with a smaller fixed blade of 3-4.5" for the more common and delicate tasks. This has worked very well for me.

I am glade we are able to have this debate and share our experiences with our knives. It is both educational and informative. Thank you.

[Paul The Brit]

I've bought Scrap Yard, Swamp Rat and Busse Combat knives and I've NEVER had one from the factory that would cut anything at all. The edges are bloody shocking! But they will sharpen up (but will need reprofiling..) and the Yard knives are the toughest, most bad ass knives in the world for the money! The S6 isn't the only hard-core Scrap Yard knife..

Out5yder, great review, thanks for posting it!

[Shaolin]

See, that does not make sense to me. I've chopped and did some feathering with the Uncle Mini Mojo, Dumpster Mutt, and RMD with no problem at all. My MPLE shaves hair off my arm, so does my Mini Sus Scrofa, SARSquatch, Hairy Carry LE Custom, and Swamp Warden.

[kurodrago]

I am late but I enjoyed reading this thread:rockon: splendid review:thumb:

[Paul The Brit]

Shaolin, you did a lot better than I did with my Yard S6, DFCG, SS4, Swamp Rat HCLE, Busse BATAC CG and Basic 7! All totally crappily blunt on arrival.. But all very good knives (except the HCLE) once they were sharpened- so could actually be referred to as knives..

Anyway, back to Out5yder's great review..

[Shaolin]

My S6 is sharp, can chop, but do not know about feathering, same with my DFCG. I'm surprised your HCLE won't shave hair. I've heard this many times before, some come out of the shop sharp other's not.

[338 Stalker]

All 9 of our Bussekin knives were popping hairs :thumb:

[Paul The Brit]

I guess it's just a blunt knife conspiracy against Brits then! You would have thought by now the Busse boys would have got passed the War of Independence (after all America did win!) :D

[Noss]

I don't doubt it. from all the news about baning knives over there.

This is just about how the knife laws read over there.
"All knives must arrive dull. Tips must be ground off. Sharpening stones are illegal as well as all bench grinders, files and belt sanders. If you caught sharpening your knife on the concrete sidewalks we will shoot you on the spot" :headbang:

[Paul The Brit]

I don't doubt it. from all the news about baning knives over there.

This is just about how the knife laws read over there.
"All knives must arrive dull. Tips must be ground off. Sharpening stones are illegal as well as all bench grinders, files and belt sanders. If you caught sharpening your knife on the concrete sidewalks we will shoot you on the spot" :headbang:

Very close Noss- the only alteration I'd make is; only criminals over here have guns (ok and the 5% of the Police that are 'armed response' officers)...

I don't want to derail this thread but I wish our government would worry more about getting criminal scum off the streets and less about knives (a valuable tool that SOME misuse). :headbang:

[vvk]

My skinny ASH arrived dull and I did not like the forward balance (favoring chopping). I like the balance of the A2 and I think it is better knife for self defense as it is incredible fast for such a large knife. I guess personal preferences vary thus your experience could be different.

[338 Stalker]

My Skinny Ash arrived yesterday, sweet knife man.

I will say this knife came a little dull, & my first Bussekin knife to do so. But that's easily fixed. Other than that, I couldn't better happier.
For me, balance is superb :thumb:

[Shaolin]

Congrat's Tez.

[338 Stalker]

Congrat's Tez.


Thanks man :thumb: . I put a few pic's here. General Knife Talk "008 & your new blades!"

[out5yder]

Tip Lateral Strength

I had seen somewhere a demonstration with a Swamp Rat knife http://images.complete180.com/hrdemo.avi
I was really impressed after I had seen that. So, I wanted to do the same with my knives and see how they perform in that situation. I went into the yard and peek up the first big piece of wood that I found, batoned my Fallkniven A2 with the tip (not too deep) into that wood and tried to dig. I forced the knife laterally and guess what!...it bent and the wood was far to give up. It bent relatively easy. That hand shaking that you see on the video is not because I putted much power in the push, but it was intentional shaking, because I wanted to check the terrain forward and feel different angles, thinking I will protect the blade from damage this way. After seing how bent the tip got and how easy, I was dissapointed for the second time since I have this knife (first was after those edge chips during the chopping session). I peeked up the Skinny ASH1 and started from the intact hole where the A2 bent. I batoned it to enter entirely into that small hole made by the tip of the A2, then forced it laterally with the same hand shaking "technique". It broke a small piece of the wood. Then I did the same two more times thrusting it in other areas of the stump. It succeeded each time, but not easy either. Its blade flexed near the tip and I have the sensation it didn't spring back to true entirely all the times. The spine was perfectly alligned after this operation, but the edge was a bit bent near the tip. The Skinny ASH had a significantly stronger tip than the Fallkniven A2, but not enough strong for that stump. I was frustrated because I felt that piece of wood invincible :mad:. I went to the owner of the yard asking what kind of wood is that and I found out it was some kind of dry oak tree. Bad luck to peek exactly that one randomly; that is maybe the hardest wood available in our area. However, none of these two knives of my could dig into that wood effectively. I might consider to buy some full thickness ASH or a Battle Mistress for that, but I'm not sure that would handle it with ease either. That was really hard wood! Finally I thrusted each knife into the same wood and forced it sideways to the other side, straightening the tips back, then I started the throwing session with them.

Fallkniven A2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dTAlTkrHy0

Busse Combat Skinny ASH1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRXNcKclGFU

[out5yder]

Knife as Gab

To use these knives as gab is very confortable (with both of them). They both have a tang as a blade prolongation at the end of the handle which is suited for being hammered or batoned and both knives are enough straight to be used as gabs.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/2992476307_3a57fc5606.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/2992476075_204aa6dbff.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3183/2992476545_9c56e33a89.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2992476177_525e817f32.jpg?v=0

[out5yder]

Hard Wood Chopping

I took advantage of that oak tree stump which caused me problems to the knife tips to see how chopping works on this kind of wood. This was the first time when I felt some pain into the hand with the Skinny ASH. The shock wave generated on impact is reflected into the ends of the handle, so, as long as you keep it exactly from the middle of the handle (and, if possible, have no contact with the ends of it), there is no problem. But if your hand has contact with the end of the handle it will feel a lot of pain. The technique with the hand relaxed does not work anymore. I was impressed to find out even the Fallkniven A2 induces some pain to the hand when used with some particular type of grips or with the hand relaxed on the handle (very interesting). At this point both knives bite the same deep into the wood (if they are both sharpened with a similar profile), so the advantage of the Skinny ASH is only encountered when chopping into soft or medium hardness wood. One more observation: at this point I felt the superior length of usable cutting edge of the A2 as an advantage while chopping on that thick kind of stump.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3157/2992476665_fea99ab8eb.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/2992476855_a956db3c2b.jpg?v=0

[out5yder]

Stabbing

I peeked the two knives and started to stab into the hard wood stump to see how it works. Then I stabbed into the ground (dense and stamped soil). Then I stabbed few times into other objects including softer wood in order to make some conclusions. The winner is the A2. None of these two knives is entirely optimized for stabbing, but the A2 works in a decent way. With the ASH, stabbing looks more like an improvisation or a workaround. But it is not impossible. Its geometry makes it effective for stabbing with the grip having the edge oriented to the hand. But this grip induces pain into the hand when your move encounters rezistence from the target. To the contrary, the grip with the edge oriented away from the hand is very confortable, but the geometry of the blade doesn't make it suitable to deep penetration with this grip (it works only for surface penetration, such as when digging into wood). With the Fallkniven A2 is the same. But with the observation its shape is perfectly straight, so it works and penetrates with the confortable grip.

This is the grip which causes pain into the hand when stabbing:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2992548047_f9fa7c4bee.jpg?v=0

This is the confortable grip for stabbing:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2992548227_c12decccdb.jpg?v=0

And this is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Raiq8pTco

[out5yder]

Throwing

I used a wood plank as target. I don't know what kind of wood it was, but it was normal (not too hard and not too soft), made from three pieces combined with nails into one piece.

I threw my knives for few hours (almost all day long) into that target and into the ground to feel the balance. With the Fallkniven A2 I had done this before, so I didn't insist with it. I threw mostly the Skinny ASH1, in order to accomodate with it.

I threw the Skinny ASH1 again and again for a lot of time. First I was calm, then during the time, I became bored and lost my patience, so I became hurried and started to miss the target and to alter the quality of the throws sometimes. I threw without worry and hitted everything around there with all parts of the knife, as hard as I could (including that rusted axe you can see in the right side, near the target, backed on the same tree). Regarding the durability I was pleased to notice the handle had not even a scratch on it. I have it now in front of my eyes and the handle looks like new (very cool). The green coating of the blade took a lot of wear and the edge became dull near the tip and got three small rolls which can be seen on the video at the end of it (no kind of chipping).
For the A2 knife I didn't need to practice with it because I was already familiar with it and because its design is more suited for throwing so that it feels natural in throwing even without any practice. Regarding the durability, it's edge became as dull as the Skinny's blade, but with micro chips (no significant chip and no damage that could not be easy fixed by normal sharpening). The A2 handle looks bad, took a lot of wear, but more like scratches. Anyway, it is still compact and with no major damage which would affect the functionality.
I had no problems with the tip of any of these two knives while throwing. The tip got no kind of bent and no break during the entire throwing session, even it didn't hit perpendiculary all the time. I broke or bent the tip of most knives by throwing into wood like this. But that was not the case with these two particular knives.

Regarding efficiency, the A2 is the obvious winner when it comes to throwing. Its perfect straight shape, its better penetration tip, the handle with no dislevelments which easy slides out of the hand and the forward balance make it a very good throwing knife. If you are used to throw knives, you don't need special practice to be successful with the A2; you will be able to throw it with precision and power from the first attempt. The Skinny ASH1 is not impossible to throw with, but you need practice in order to make it work. Its balance point is exactly at the joining between the blade and the handle which is ok, its tip is enough sharp to penetrate and the overall shape is enough straight to be good for throwing. But you need to became familiar with it and to understand it. Otherwise it won't work. The problem regards the handle shape. All those dislevelments on the handle of the ASH which are intended to retain the hand and not to let it slide out when chopping, well, they don't let it slide out when throwing either. When you become familiar with it, the ASH works wonderfull for throwing and it is very very effective (I would bet it can even kill if thrown properly). However, the A2 is still beter for throwing, even when you are used with the ASH.
The shape of the handle on the ASH is not disconfortant for all kinds of throws. It affects only one kind of throwing, but the one that is the most effective: the throw with the knife kept from the handle and thrown without rotation. Of course, I can throw it kept from the blade, with half of a rotation (can see it in the videoclip too), but this way of throwing is not applicable in real life situations, when the target moves fast or attacks you. In real life situations there is a combination of adrenaline, fear and allert in your mind so that you need to keep the technique as simple as possible and to concentrate entirely on the power, speed and timeing in order to be effective. You also need a throw which will hit the target with the tip even if the distance from the target changes rapidely. And throwing with the handle grip and no rotation, even if you fail throwing because the target moves too fast and it catches you before you throw, you will still have the knife in the hand with a grip on the handle, not on the blade, so that you can continue fighting. That's what I'm talking about. Anyway, as you can see in the video, this technique is still possible with the ASH, but you need practice to understand how to keep it so that it can slide out of the hand.

Skinny ASH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYjWFLBKmY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBTH97ln_o

Fallkniven A2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGiVfdBgDRw

[out5yder]

Knife as Shovel

Long time ago, I used to dig into the ground with my own hands. As soon as I started to carry a knife with me, I transferred this job to the knife as a prolongation of my hands and I feel significantly much confortable. I dig into the ground for different reasons - for example to make a hole to start fire in, to collect grubs for fisshing, roots, or to hide some objects. In some many days trips you sometimes need to make a rain safety ditch around the tent and I don't like to carry a shovel only for such a small ditch.
So, digging with these two knives is like you see on the video below. Both knives work well, but the better of the two is the Skinny ASH. As regards the durability, the A2 took some micro chips on the edge (I could zoom on them in the video, but they were so small that they had no importance and no effect against the cutting ability, so, I didn't want to loose the time with zooming on them). The Skinny ASH took no visible damage, nothing that could be seen with eyes or felt with the finger (its edge was sharp and with a profile very similar to the A2 edge). The soil was a normal soil, stamped, dense, but with no visible rocks in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVX28md-4r0

[out5yder]

Improvised Spear

The spear is the most effective improvised weapon some can make into the field when having a knife with him, increasing the reach of the knife. The spear can be used for defending, cutting the tails of fruits witout climbing up into the tree, ambush hunting or even for throwing. However, to use the spear for throwing is very difficult because is very difficult to make a precision throw with an improvised spear. Most of the times you can't find a perfectly straight and perfect length stick into the wild, so you use whatever you find. For the test, I peeked the first stick I found into the yard, because this is what rather happens into a real survival situation. The stick I used was not enough long (the perfect length is my height with hands up) and not too straight. I extracted the roupe I have on the sheaths of my knives and made as improvised spear with the A2 knife. Then, I used the same stick to make a spear with the Skinny ASH.
The tip of the A2 is better for penetration, so I expected it to be better. However, in practice the better of the two proved to be the Skinny ASH. But not much better. It was more as a balance issue caused by the length of the knife which had a role of a spear tip now. I felt the Skinny ASH better and more confortable with that stick. But I think the A2 would be as good as the Skinny if used with a longer and heavier stick. Both of them would work better with a better stick. However, they still were good and redutable weapons in this test.

Fallkniven A2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2SQUaAoliM

Busse Skinny ASH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ULj3YASUg

[out5yder]

Fighting

When comes about fighting there are many aspects to be considered, like stabbing, penetration, ease of handling, sharpness, reach, durability and reliability during short time intense stressing and so on. However, there is much that can be discussed about fighting knives. But I tried only one thing: to block a stick hit and be able to attack the oponent cursive after blocking. With a sword is easy to do that, but with a knife you have no reach and not enough blade length to feel cover your body. My technique was to block the stick with my forearm(s) - which comes very natural and effective - and use the knife to cover the forearm. Or to place the blade of the knife in front of the stick hit and then place my entire body behind it to support it.
I did this with the A2. First time the stick was blocked and cut without effort. Second time, I changed the position to an offensive one and it worked well. I tried to do the same with the Skinny ASH, starting directly with the offensive position (which is more dangerous while defending). Bad idea to try that witout a strong "D"-guard! I was scared from the beginning because of the shorter blade and I had some hesitations; that drived me directly to failure. Concerned about the short blade, I tried to block it with the choil area, near the handle to be sure the hit will not slide down lower than the tip of the blade and hit my body. I ended up blocking it directly with my fingers, in full (can hear the sound on the video). Don't want to tell how my fingers look like :D. Thank God that was only a stick and not a sword or something! I'm sure if I had no hesitation I would succed it; but in the real life is very difficult to have no hesitation in that situation. I'm also pretty sure I can do it witout problem if I mount a strong D-guard on the Skinny ASH. But it was close to become dark outside and I left it for other day.

Fallkniven A2 sparring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYCCFNLKqAc

Busse Skinny ASH1 sparring (no D-guard used):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehdQxFXKwaI

Some changes of the grip with the Skinny ASH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4daH4rb7MI

Some changes of the grip with the A2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvPXF1nxCk8

Regarding the durability, I don't think I will ever find out how rezistent my knives are against other knives. That would require me to hit a sword or other knife directly with tested knives in full (edge on edge) and then hit the tested knives with the other one edge on edge in full. I saw in Noss D-tests how a Fallkniven A1 (same steel as A2) performs in metal-on-metal test and I saw a Battle Mistress in INFI performing in the same test (I hope I will see the Skinny ASH in this test soon too). But in that test the knives do not try to cut the other metal by hitting it, but by being hammered into it (which does not involv direct edge impacts). So, maybe I will never find out how these knives rezist during edge-on-edge impacts, but however, I don't think they will break or be cut from the first hit.

[out5yder]

To be continued...

I have three more tests in my mind that I intend to perform with these 2 knives and post here:
1) corrosion resistence
2) cutting test after sharpening them
3) edge retention

I hope I will find time soon...

Best Regards,

an Outsider.

[out5yder]

I have also edited the post in page 2 where it is about the price, I also added the warranty statements.

[NervusNorvus]

Really thorough and comprehensive job testing the capabilites of two great knives. Looking foward to any follow-up tests. It would be especially interesting to see how INFI stands up to corrosion compared with the Fallkniven sandwich. Thanks out5yder.:thumb::thumb::thumb:

[Izan]

It was such a busy day at work to day I just watched all of your videos again!

[mick the welder]

Wow, i,m new to thie forum and onwly found it when i googled foer a review of the fallkniven A2, boy did i get that review!! Awesome. As mentioned above i am keen to see the corrosion test, Very well done
regards mick

[Falcor]

Bro. Out5yder, what an amazing amount of work, attention to detail and thought you have gone through to share this with us, you truly have humbled many of us who 'think about doing a test' but never get around to it. Congratulations on an outstanding review which has been very helpful to me and I'm sure to many others too.

Like Noss's tests, I believe that your review will become a reference for years to come.

I look forward to the next part and again thank you.

BTW, if you are Romanian, then English is probably not your native language, like me. If so I know that writing in English takes a little longer, outstanding!

[Falcor]

Regarding sharpness of knives from the BusseKin factories - I have two NMSFNOs, one was shaving sharp, the other, not blunt but not sharp. SAR5 - shaving sharp
Swamp Rats - 2x Waki, both bloody sharp!
No Scrapyards, so cannot say.

[soapboxpreacher]

I'm a big Fallkniven fan. I own an A1 and absolutely love it. It is my go to knife. I have handled a few Busse and really like them a lot. Not a big fan of how to get them nor the cost. Even though I dont think this is really an Apples to Apples comparison as Out, I am sure agrees, do to the difference in length the A1 would be a better comparison to the ASH. But this is an amazing test!! Leave nearly no stone unturned!! As Out stated about the handle of the A2 it goes for the same on the A1. I think if they modified the handle it would be tops across the board! I dont like my rat handles...I initially did but they (depending on the RC model) can be big and boxes...which is all ESEE handles. You can shape them for Micarta is easy to work with in that fashion and holds up well. I made the mistake of buying an all black A1...it is not black anymore. 4+ weeks of hard use and it is nearly unfinished. If you use this knife for camping, survival, chopping, batonning...get the regular finish...anything but comabt for stealth get the regular finish black in my opinion is for combat to hide it better. Fallkniven black wears FAST...not like ESEE or Busse black finish. But I think after seeing this, an A2 is in my future. I really like it. The weight is perfect (IMHO), length, sheath is light...but locks well and is simple for what it is. My Bravo 1 sheath is so freakin tight I nearly rip my pants off from the belt drawing it....another nice knife. But overall I have found the Fallknivens to be my favorite. The grind is very versatile and I like the profile alot. It is not a deep knife like the ESEE or Busse. But yet it maintains its performance like a deep knife profile. Corrosion...is also a plus. VG-10 does well here.

[dingyu1980]

To be continued...

I have three more tests in my mind that I intend to perform with these 2 knives and post here:
1) corrosion resistence
2) cutting test after sharpening them
3) edge retention

I hope I will find time soon...

Best Regards,

an Outsider.

have you done retention test?

[dingyu1980]

I'm a big Fallkniven fan. I own an A1 and absolutely love it. It is my go to knife. I have handled a few Busse and really like them a lot. Not a big fan of how to get them nor the cost. Even though I dont think this is really an Apples to Apples comparison as Out, I am sure agrees, do to the difference in length the A1 would be a better comparison to the ASH. But this is an amazing test!! Leave nearly no stone unturned!! As Out stated about the handle of the A2 it goes for the same on the A1. I think if they modified the handle it would be tops across the board! I dont like my rat handles...I initially did but they (depending on the RC model) can be big and boxes...which is all ESEE handles. You can shape them for Micarta is easy to work with in that fashion and holds up well. I made the mistake of buying an all black A1...it is not black anymore. 4+ weeks of hard use and it is nearly unfinished. If you use this knife for camping, survival, chopping, batonning...get the regular finish...anything but comabt for stealth get the regular finish black in my opinion is for combat to hide it better. Fallkniven black wears FAST...not like ESEE or Busse black finish. But I think after seeing this, an A2 is in my future. I really like it. The weight is perfect (IMHO), length, sheath is light...but locks well and is simple for what it is. My Bravo 1 sheath is so freakin tight I nearly rip my pants off from the belt drawing it....another nice knife. But overall I have found the Fallknivens to be my favorite. The grind is very versatile and I like the profile alot. It is not a deep knife like the ESEE or Busse. But yet it maintains its performance like a deep knife profile. Corrosion...is also a plus. VG-10 does well here.

FK knives , the edge on it is brittle a little bit. but not bad.
:D

[Cliff.Stamp]

This looks to have been a wonderful comparison, any reason why the video's were removed?

[Old Spice]

The videos all still work for me.

[Cliff.Stamp]

Some of the early ones, but he removed a lot of them, just check his channel.

[Old Spice]

I see 11 videos on his channel and they all play for me, did he use to have more then 11?

[Cliff.Stamp]

Yeah, if you go to the end of this thread there are a bunch which were removed. His last activity is a half a year ago, odd why they were took down it was an impressive amount of work. He did get a lot of slash for it though, most hilarious was :

"There is a thread on Knifeforums about your video. These people are knife experts who dislike your video."

I think those guys dislike Noss's videos as well, guess he should pack it in.

[Old Spice]

Welling seeing that the videos were on fighting, stabbing and stuff I imagine he caught a ton of flak from knifeforum Nazis and took um down after a lot of harassment.

hey not to be rude but at the speed your cutting those small branches and i mean small cause of the size of the knife i mean i can cut that fast with a f1 if the branch is that small, learn a bit about knife handling il give you tips if you want with a knife like an a2 you can baton a whole tree in my opinion in no time

Dude, you should take some "How to use a knife 101 for dummies" course fast.. before ruining another excellent knife with your ignorance and lack of skill.

Your Busse and SK-5 CS didn't chip because they aren't stainless blades!?

The laminated VG-10 Fallkniven is one of the few stainless survival blades and thereby:

- not comparable to your carbon blades;

- more brittle;

- and most important: not to be used like an idiot smacking it in the ground like you did.

I kept thinking "I hope this idiot drives this knife right into his/her leg/foot". Would have made the video worth watching, and a good "what not to do" video. Still a good "what not to do" video though. Thanks :)

People where wishing he would hurt himself, and that is just from a single page of comments on him chopping with the A2.

[Cliff.Stamp]

Yeah, great way to treat someone trying to share information.

[Old Spice]

Afraid to talk on camera because I don't want my voice on the net. I've got a lot of enemies because not everybody likes my vids and to see knives pushed to their limits. Especially the Fallkniven guys and fans became very angry after I've posted the video showing an A2 chipping at the edge (I'v been banned from all fallkniven forums for that). And they would've extend that aggression to my personal life if they could identify me.

Guy was afraid.

[styx]

I really don't get that bs. Guys share info and become public enemies. Hell Noss made a test on Ka-Bar USMC, a knife I like very much, and broke it. So what? It's a fair test that shows where things become too much for it. Considering what else broke, hell for $60 it's still a great buy.

Ppl get just too butt sensitive when it's something they own. Or if they just like it. Odd how freedom of speech and information sharing is limited to threats and badmouthing others

[Cliff.Stamp]

I would not have expected Fallkniven to ban him for his report, though I would have expected the fanboys to have such a harsh reaction as they live in a fantasy world and they do not like and can not handle the reality of what happens when people actually use their knives.

High carbide steels are brittle and will take a lot of damage when they hit hard objects and he spent three days to get the edge back into shape as the grindability is so low. Now maybe that isn't important to you, cool, just ignore it and move on. But they can't as they live in the a fantasy where these steels are tough and easy to grind.

[Noss]

He was another victim of Mike Stewart. Stewart hammered him on the Fallkniven forum and banned him. Or one of his other crony moderators did.

[styx]

Damn, those guys need to get lightsabers and be done with it

[GroGuiK]

Great test, Out5yder, i really enjoyed it very much !!!:thumb:
THANK YOU

[Cliff.Stamp]

This is just sad :

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/832027/tp/1/

one person comes in to defend him and discuss about cutting roots, digging, etc. and instant ban.

[Old Spice]

Sad.

But when I was new to the internet knife thing I lurked enough at knifeforums to know they hated testers/reviews if they didn't lavish praise on their manufactures.

Kinda of want to go back and post stuff to annoy them, but they are so easy to piss off, wouldn't be any fun.

[Cliff.Stamp]

The ironic thing is that I was around with Fallkniven first came onto the forums, at that point they were not convex and had only a couple of models and the edges were very thick. They strongly promoted the ability of a knife to pry and be hammered on (extended pommel) and aggressively attacked other blades, arguing even that INFI was a low grade steel full of inclusions which was weak and failed in their tests - Busse responded near immediately with a live challenge, stopped that.

[Old Spice]

IF you pay the bills you can say and do pretty much what ever you want there. Some balls on Fallkniven to make claims like that though.

[Cliff.Stamp]

"We tested the INFI steel quite many years ago with regards to the bending strength and, compared to the VG10 steel, it was much weaker. By then we were interested in distributing that brand on the Swedish market but after the test, these plans were cancelled. After that we have added the laminate VG10 blades, even 20 % stronger than the solid VG10 blades."

That is from Fallkniven (Peter), there are also comment about the steel itself. Of course when that is brought up anyone who would post to question that or raise an alternative point is banned. I noted years ago Peter was reading the graphs wrong and the laminate was not stronger it was weaker but he kept repeating the obvious misinformation. There are also comment on INFI itself how it was a low grade steel full of inclusions, etc. . But they never responded to the live challenge and then they attack/ban guys who post results where the knives are less than stellar.

[BimotaBoy]

Peter,

Please see testing results at Knife Tests.com.
This is a nonsponsored web site dedicated to the testing of knives to complete failure.
The Fallkniven A1 performed great with a earning of 5 swords (very Good!)
Also please look at the Busse INFI blades tested. The lowest ranking of which is the Skinny Ash with a sword rating 5.75 swords and a highest of 7 swords for the Battle Mistress.
If you would like to say your blades are better than another's please supply them to Noss for testing.
Please dont expect them to be returned in one piece as you will find the testing quite thorough.

[styx]

Not really fair of Fallkniven to act like that. Still pretty good blades though.

As for Noss' testing - I'm all for it. His ranking system, I'm not a fan of. Actually any ranking system is like that. What I like about Cliff is that he gives good things and bad instead of a number. Words you can understand, numbers are very individual and hard to interpret. Well easy to what they mean to the other guy, but to you is a different story

[Cliff.Stamp]

If you would like to say your blades are better than another's please supply them to Noss for testing.

That would go over very well on KnifeForums.

Not really fair of Fallkniven to act like that. Still pretty good blades though.

That is the thing, they make fine blades and work very well if you take into account the limitations of the materials and design, just like anything else.

The problem is though they often send mixed messages. Fallkniven, and Peter directly have very aggressively promoted how they make very strong and tough blades. Now just imagine someone getting into knives and looking for a durable knife, you start reading this, see the graphs which show the high strength and read comments like this from a Fallkniven rep on the edges on the H1 :

I would answer Yes they are usually thick!

Peter hates to see broken knives coming back to him,so he sees to that they are made very strong.


Now you go out and buy the A2, the big heavy duty knife for you to carry and use in the woods. So you go buy that knife and use it, you are not perfect of course in use and intentionally you maybe are a bit sloppy just to see what would happen in less than ideal situations, the edge gets horribly chipped out, basically destroyed. So you take another knife from another manufacturer (Busse) and do the same work, then do harder work, etc. .

This is basically what likely happened here, and what happens to the guy he gets raked over the coals for doing something perfectly reasonable. What would happen if he was digging, cutting roots, etc. . And here is the thing, he didn't even attack the knife, he noted it was solid in all other respects aside from the fact it was so easily damaged compared to the Busse knife.