Scalpel sharp

[Koa]

There has been some recent scalpel discussion on the forum, mainly due to me of course. :thumb: But the term "scalpel sharp" is not really a compliment in reality. I have examined and used many scalpels in my time and found them to be fairly rough machine grinds with many grooves along the edge. I have not used a microscope to examine the teeth though. Sure a scalpel is sharp but I feel it's mainly due to the thickness of the blade. Scalpels are extremely thin and therefore very sharp. One day I really want to take a disposable scalpel and put a real edge on it, I'll bet that thing will be so sharp it will cut just by looking at something.

Not sure exactly why I posted this but I think it just proves that thin blades even though not perfectly sharpened will still cut better than thick blades. People think I'm crazy in the OR when I start examining the edges and talking about the science behind cutlery. :D

[Richard J]

send me a scalpel and i'll put the kind of edge you are talking about on it. back in 93, i was cut badly by a large bowie that i made. the doctor that stitched me up couldnt believe i was cut with a large knife. he said the cut looked like a razor cut. i took the knife over and showed him the knife. he was amazed that a thick blade could be as sharp as a thin razor blade.

[Koa]

Tell me about it Richard J I had a run-in with a khukuri about 2 weeks ago while sharpening it. That blade is THICK and you would never know it. I'll have to remember to "borrow" some scalpels next time I'm at the hospital.

[Richard J]

i have a scalpel made from stellite that i need to send off to a friend in texas named ray fleischer. i have it scarry sick sharp. i forgot to send you a picture of the scalpel sharpener.

[gunmike1]

Thin knives definately cut better even when not optimally sharp. I have several knives that are .005"-.007" thick behind the sharpened edge (all Tom Krein regrinds or his customs) and they really cut great, even when they are relatively dull. My Krein Ultimate Caper in CPM M4 gets very sharp for me, able to whittle hair at DMT fine. I keep taking it through other stones until I get a .05 micron finish on it from lapping film, and it will whittle hair into tiny slivers and glide through paper like it isn't there. It probably takes me 10 times as long as Richard would need on his wheels to get it that sharp, but that knife is a treat. Then you cut with it and it is amazing how well it tears down cardboard, plastic and rope, people have said it was like a scalpal (but they have never used a scalpal anyway, so how would they know). The knife is a unbelievable paring knife, it just carves and peels like a champ. My Spyderco ZDP 189 Calypso Jr that Krein took to a high hollow grind is the same way, just a great cutter. The downside to these thin edges and ultra cutting performance is that if you try to twist out of a tough cut it is chip central, but when you know how to use a very thin knife that is properly sharp you get rewarded with cutting bliss. I always carry a larger, thicker knife along with my ultra thin knives to make sure those thin edges don't have to get shredded when tougher cutting duties arise.

Mike

[jankerson]

If you have a blade that will push cut through newsprint then it is extremely sharp, all my EDC's are that sharp, that's hair popping sharp, crazy sharp. :thumb:

Pushing through printer paper is easy. :)

[jankerson]

There has been some recent scalpel discussion on the forum, mainly due to me of course. :thumb: But the term "scalpel sharp" is not really a compliment in reality. I have examined and used many scalpels in my time and found them to be fairly rough machine grinds with many grooves along the edge. I have not used a microscope to examine the teeth though. Sure a scalpel is sharp but I feel it's mainly due to the thickness of the blade. Scalpels are extremely thin and therefore very sharp. One day I really want to take a disposable scalpel and put a real edge on it, I'll bet that thing will be so sharp it will cut just by looking at something.

Not sure exactly why I posted this but I think it just proves that thin blades even though not perfectly sharpened will still cut better than thick blades. People think I'm crazy in the OR when I start examining the edges and talking about the science behind cutlery. :D

I can get a knife so sharp on my Edge Pro it will make a scalpel look like a butter knife. :thumb::D:rockon:

Lets just say Air Bleeding sharp. :rockon::thumb:

[Madnumforce]

When I was in formation for cutlery, I had in my class a young lady who worked in a surgery tools factory. I don't remember how they sharpen scalpels, but you know, some are for eye surgery, and I guess you can't operate with a shovel-like edge. Maybe there is more tolerance for general, basic surgery, but even then, I guess they never let it get dull.

On the other hand, I don't see were a razor sharp edge is really required, except for razors, and maybe for vegetables cutting. In fact, someone I know went in some trouble while very drunk, and with a moderately sharp swiss knife, he made some serious injuries. The guy he hit in a single motion (a drunk guy motion) was cut on the side of the neck (he had very big earphones protecting him, thus no main artery was cut), on the chest, where it ripped on the ribs, and finished on the forearm, cutting tendons. In one single motion of a drunk guy from a used edge swiss knife. Then I'm asking myself if all this about splitinf hair sharpness isn't somewhat masturbation.

[jankerson]

When I was in formation for cutlery, I had in my class a young lady who worked in a surgery tools factory. I don't remember how they sharpen scalpels, but you know, some are for eye surgery, and I guess you can't operate with a shovel-like edge. Maybe there is more tolerance for general, basic surgery, but even then, I guess they never let it get dull.

On the other hand, I don't see were a razor sharp edge is really required, except for razors, and maybe for vegetables cutting. In fact, someone I know went in some trouble while very drunk, and with a moderately sharp swiss knife, he made some serious injuries. The guy he hit in a single motion (a drunk guy motion) was cut on the side of the neck (he had very big earphones protecting him, thus no main artery was cut), on the chest, where it ripped on the ribs, and finished on the forearm, cutting tendons. In one single motion of a drunk guy from a used edge swiss knife. Then I'm asking myself if all this about splitinf hair sharpness isn't somewhat masturbation.

I hear you, but ideally a knife for SD purposes should be as sharp as you can get it because it will cut through just about anything a person could have on and straight on through. :thumb:

For a SD knife the sharper the better or it's never really sharp enough. :rockon:

But yes I do see you point about some things like in the field or cutting rope, cardboard etc you don't want a knife with a polished edge.

[The Tourist]

I have a friend in Wyoming and we discuss knives and their qualities about once per week. Trying to convey the idea of "how sharp is sharp" is often an issue. Sometimes we rely on how a specialty knife performs.

For example, a Japanese yanagiba has to effortlessly slice fish. A wilderness camp knife has differing needs.

We do polish our edges, for many reasons. One aspect of use is that if a knife slips through the media it cuts there is less drag and wear on the edge. Now it might seem odd to many, but we use the same waterstones and polishing procedures on our folders as we do on high-end kitchen knives.

Our ultimate goal is is the frightening "toasty" edge. Here's an EDC of mine. (I sold this particular example, but I bought an identical knife and polished it the same way.)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/011.jpg

[kurodrago]

I have a friend in Wyoming and we discuss knives and their qualities about once per week. Trying to convey the idea of "how sharp is sharp" is often an issue. Sometimes we rely on how a specialty knife performs.

For example, a Japanese yanagiba has to effortlessly slice fish. A wilderness camp knife has differing needs.

We do polish our edges, for many reasons. One aspect of use is that if a knife slips through the media it cuts there is less drag and wear on the edge. Now it might seem odd to many, but we use the same waterstones and polishing procedures on our folders as we do on high-end kitchen knives.

Our ultimate goal is is the frightening "toasty" edge. Here's an EDC of mine. (I sold this particular example, but I bought an identical knife and polished it the same way.)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/011.jpg

Nice job.
Its look like a Edge Pro Knife Sharpener job to me? How you did perfect angle?

[The Tourist]

Nice job.
Its look like a Edge Pro Knife Sharpener job to me? How you did perfect angle?

Nice catch!

I use a whole bunch of stuff when sharpening from glass to motorcycle paste.

When I get a new knife and I suspect that the edge is crooked or poorly shaped I do use an Edge Pro to even out the grinding errors.

This knife was pretty good. Its bevel was a tad thin where the belly curves to the tip and the heel still is a might crooked. It was sold to a friend of mine, and as he returns for touch-ups I will carefully remove a bit at a time.

The CQC-16 I have now is worse, and I'm going to do the same "slow hand" manner of repair. Yes, I'll use an Edge Pro to true up the bevel once again.

[Madnumforce]

I do admire that mirror polish edge bevel. In fact, I havn't that on mines... but mainly because we can't see the bevel, or at least not so wide. French pocket knives aren't heavy duty at all, the Opinel even has a thin brittle blade you could break while just carving wood, but the edge is allways very thin, and the steel often relatively soft, so that just some strokes on the leather give it a frightening edge. I don't know if we could call it really "scalpel sharp", as I never handled scalpels in my life, but I don't have a slightest doubt a vigourous cut on someone's chest, arm or face would leave a bloody awfull cut without any effort, or cut the heaviest rope in just a motion. It is even too sharp to shave: as soon as you put enough pressure to catch the hair, it also scrap off the upper layer of the skin and causes inflamation. Garage sales razor stropes (or better than just stropes: a hollowed wood handle/, with felt trimming under the two sides of leather, one with polishing paste, and one without) are really great at extremely fine sharpening of thin edges.

[kurodrago]

The Tourist, nice pic. Here we have a guy (jankerson) that use Edge pro and is good with it.
http://knifetest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12912#post12912
http://photocamel.com/gallery/data/2436/medium/DSC_3763.JPG (http://photocamel.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=57623)

[The Tourist]

The Tourist, nice pic. Here we have a guy (jankerson) that use Edge pro and is good with it.

I hope he drops by, he looks like a good craftsman.

After I quit my "adult job" I looked for a hobby (and what developed into a part-time job) and Ben Dale over at Edge Pro shared some of his ideas for a business plan. Yikes, that was almost twenty years ago.

Ben is one of the nicest guys in the business. As time passed, we experimented with different polishing papers and pastes, and he even made me special glass mounts, among other speicilized requests. He now even sell glass mounts.

I'm sure Mr. Jankerson can attest to the support Ben gives us. And I'm proud to say that to this day over 2/3s over every sharpening tool I own comes from or has been modified by Ben Dale. Had we never met I might not be where I am now.

[jankerson]

The Edge Pro is the Best sharpening system available IMO. :thumb:

[The Tourist]

Mr. Jankerson, nice to meet you. Give me a shout anytime.:thumb:

[jankerson]

Mr. Jankerson, nice to meet you. Give me a shout anytime.:thumb:

I will. :D :thumb:

I have been sharpening knives forever or so it seems, mostly free hand until a few years ago although I still do some free hand sharpening when needed.

I really got started when I was in the USMC and soon after it seemed like everyone found out I was good at sharpening so guess who they brought their knives to. Back then I just used a Tri-Hone Oil Stone system with the Coarse, Med and Fine Stones attached to a block. I can't even count how many K-Bars and other knives I sharpened in those 4 years. Made a lot of money back then doing it too.

I don't do it professionally now unless I am asked. ;)

I did this FFBM a few weeks ago, had to repair the edge, it had a dent in the edge, it was new so I kept it close to factory angle.

http://photocamel.com/gallery/data/3927/medium/DSC_4151.JPG (http://photocamel.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=62563)

http://photocamel.com/gallery/data/3927/medium/DSC_4149.JPG (http://photocamel.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=62561)

[The Tourist]

Mr. Jankerson, I hated my "adult job," retired with benefits and at first just wanted something else. I started by sharpening kitchen knives at my church.

But as time went on I got a job as an unpaid consultant at the now-defunct Eastside Gander Mountain. I sharpened there for four years just for cash. Then I met a few chefs and went itinerant. When that sporting goods store closed I simply set up at home. I still get calls from the business cards I handed out.

I must admit this--I use any tool or system I can for a sharp edge. I "steal" from everyone! If you saw my work area you'd recognize products from Edge Pro, HandAmerican, 3x9s from Japan, even a special longer pivot arm Ben made for me with a tighter head to make sharpening Emerson knives easier. I even use motorcycle paste for buffing.

I'm a real mongrel when it comes to sharpening. I even bought a beginner's bushido katana to see if I can polish the edge and repair the scratches and gouges.

I will say this. Sharpening to me is more than edges. I had such disgust for my adult job that just the simple pleasure of working on knives is the true joy.

[jankerson]

Mr. Jankerson, I hated my "adult job," retired with benefits and at first just wanted something else. I started by sharpening kitchen knives at my church.

But as time went on I got a job as an unpaid consultant at the now-defunct Eastside Gander Mountain. I sharpened there for four years just for cash. Then I met a few chefs and went itinerant. When that sporting goods store closed I simply set up at home. I still get calls from the business cards I handed out.

I must admit this--I use any tool or system I can for a sharp edge. I "steal" from everyone! If you saw my work area you'd recognize products from Edge Pro, HandAmerican, 3x9s from Japan, even a special longer pivot arm Ben made for me with a tighter head to make sharpening Emerson knives easier. I even use motorcycle paste for buffing.

I'm a real mongrel when it comes to sharpening. I even bought a beginner's bushido katana to see if I can polish the edge and repair the scratches and gouges.

I will say this. Sharpening to me is more than edges. I had such disgust for my adult job that just the simple pleasure of working on knives is the true joy.


I have a Paul Chen Bushido Katana, they are nice aren't they? :thumb:

I don't use mine, but I did touch up the edge slightly when I 1st got it, just a simple ceramic stick and lightly touched the edge to remove any burs that might have been there.

[The Tourist]

but I did touch up the edge slightly.

That was not my goal. I told the cite owner to send me a rough one so I could practice. Yikes, I guess the customer is always right!:p

From the habachi down about six inches it looks like Wolverine sharpened his adamantium claws on the blade. You can see the gouges from across the room.

I ordered two additional 3x9 stones. This is going to take time...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/001-12.jpg

[jankerson]

Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. :D

[The Tourist]

The saya has a nice laquer finish, but the blade fit is very poor. I think I'm going to have to find a polisher--there's one in Madison--who can help me with the tolerance issues and problems with wood.

This is going to be a very long term project.

On the bright side this is a heavy model, and it will be good for a student practicing on grass mats. I doubt a real 800 AD samurai could break this thing.

[jankerson]

The saya has a nice laquer finish, but the blade fit is very poor. I think I'm going to have to find a polisher--there's one in Madison--who can help me with the tolerance issues and problems with wood.

This is going to be a very long term project.

On the bright side this is a heavy model, and it will be good for a student practicing on grass mats. I doubt a real 800 AD samurai could break this thing.

I will post some of mine when they are up, took some new ones today. :thumb:

[Madnumforce]

That was not my goal. I told the cite owner to send me a rough one so I could practice. Yikes, I guess the customer is always right!:p

From the habachi down about six inches it looks like Wolverine sharpened his adamantium claws on the blade. You can see the gouges from across the room.

I ordered two additional 3x9 stones. This is going to take time...

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/001-12.jpg

Do I have shit in my eyes or there is a kind of huge pit in the blade, right to the flash reflexion, and another smaller one on the left? Where I was working, as a cutlery polisher, we wouldn't even have let this pass on a cheap spoon or fork. My advice: let it so. It would be an awfull amount of work for just aesthetics, even with belt grinder and polishing tools. If you don't like this pit, sell this katana on eBay and get one from a maker with much more tighter tolerances. But take off that poor etched hammon!

[The Tourist]

Do I have shit in my eyes or there is a kind of huge pit in the blade!

The blade looks worse in real life. It is a disaster.

But to be fair, that's what I asked the supplier to send me. That's what I wanted.

I want to learn to polish. Oh, I will never have a polisher's credentials, I'm a tad old to "wax on, wax off." But I enjoy sharpening, and I've never polished a katana.

As for aesthetics, even if I get out 90% of the marks and sharpen the edge to a useful degree, more than likely this katana will find its way into the hands of a young bushido student who cannot afford a better quality tool.

It will be very sharp when I am done, and it will look a lot better. The picture below shows what I have for a tip. I had to even make the edge uniform before I began polishing the decorative portion. Even the grind lines were done half-ass.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/TheTourist_bucket/001-5.jpg

[jankerson]

Mine is up here:

http://www.siteground136.com/~knifetes/forum/showthread.php?p=14808#post14808

[Madnumforce]

Well, then you won't be left idle if you want to make it clean and sharp! But sure you will learn to polish!

Good luck, you'll need it.

[The Tourist]

Good luck, you'll need it.

LOL, obviously you knew my parents...or most of my teachers...

I intend to work carefully and slowly. I have a number of history books and one devoted to restoring samurai swords. I'm not proud when it comes to education and I will seek help when needed.

Most importantly, I am retired and I have all of the time in the world.

[jankerson]

LOL, obviously you knew my parents...or most of my teachers...

I intend to work carefully and slowly. I have a number of history books and one devoted to restoring samurai swords. I'm not proud when it comes to education and I will seek help when needed.

Most importantly, I am retired and I have all of the time in the world.

You are gonna need it if you try polishing it in the traditional way. :D