Gerber LMF Sheath Problem Pt1

[Tac45]

I have two gerber LMF's. The coyote brown has an earlier version sheath. I don't know if newer coyote LMFs have the newer sheath like on the foliage green version. I'm guessing Gerber realised that there was a problem with the older sheath. Both sheaths look similar and function similar. The main difference being on the way the sheath attaches to the webbing. The coyote brown sheath attaches to the webbing via a velcro strap which threads through the mouth opening of the sheath itself. The foliage green sheath bolts onto the webbing from the rear. The velcro makes it easy to detach the sheath from the webbing for alternate carry. This is where the problem lies. The very grippy rubber surface of the handle drags on the coyote strap which holds the sheath on. This strap starts to loosen and forms a looped or raised area where it threads through the sheath mouth. After a few draws this loose strapping bunches up and you can't get the knife back in the sheath. You have to undo the velcro strap and tighten it. The only other differences are cosmetic. The coyote brown webbing is sown on top and bottom of the belt loop leaving an area of webbing above the pommel. You can see it looks longer than the foliage webbing in the first picture. The velcro straps on the bottom which feed through the sheath open in opposite directions. The pictures are on more than one thread as only four pictures are allowed.

DIFFERENCES IN APPEARANCE

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMFFront.jpg

FOLIAGE WEBBING IS BOLTED ON

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMFRear.jpg

COYOTE WEBBING EXTENDS BEYOND THE POMMEL

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMFPommel.jpg

COYOTE VELCRO STRAP WHICH HOLDS THE SHEATH TO THE WEBBING

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMF1.jpg

[Tac45]

THIS IS THE STRAP WHICH BECOMES LOOSE FROM HANDLE DRAG

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMF4.jpg

THE BOLTED ON WEBBING DOESN'T HAVE AN AREA FOR THE HANDLE TO CATCH

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMF6.jpg

BECAUSE THE KNIFE WON'T RESHEATH PROPERLY. THE SECURITY STRAP CAN'T BE FASTENED.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMF3.jpg

ANOTHER VIEW DEPICTING THE PROXIMITY OF THE SECURITY STRAP

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMF7.jpg

[Tac45]

THE VELCRO DOES MAKE FOR EASY DISASSEMBLY WITHOUT A TOOL. THE BENEFIT IS OUTWEIGHED BY THE FACT THE KNIFE GETS STUCK WHEN IT COMES LOOSE.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMF2.jpg

THE SHEATH DETACHED FOR ALTERNATE CARRY.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMF.jpg

LOWER VELCRO STRAPS UNDO IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS. MAKES ME WONDER IF GERBER SWITCHED WEBBING MANUFACTURERS?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/tac45/GerberLMFSheathTip.jpg

[FOBOS]

Thanks for the post TAc45. Thats is exactly what is happening with my Gerber. Now I know why. Too bad Gerber don't do a recall on the sheath. Oh well maybe I'll just have to buy the foliage green Gerber too...

[Leigh]

Good pics.
My early sheath (black w/velcro backing) broke at the mouth area where friction holds the handle secure.
Gerber promptly replaced it but I noticed the replacement had a small white "Made in Vietnam" tag sewn inside the tunnel belt loop. No biggie just strange as the blade itself was marked Portland, Oregon.

[Izan]

How long did you have this knife before this started happening? I just bought a LMF II this morning. Black sheath, looks similar to the coyote.

[Tac45]

Hi Izan. The knife I've had for a few months but it sits unused with some gear I take in the car on trips. I've only pulled it in and out to examine the knife. So It's only gone in and out of the sheath maybe twenty times. No damage is done by this, but it is very annoying. I know the foliage green is the latest in the LMF line. I wonder if the coyote and black currently being produced use the green web system. Stores who have stocks of these most likely have knives they have had on the shelves for some time.

Leigh. The mouth of the sheath broke! How did you do that? Was it just from normal use?

Fobos. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has experienced this. Like I said mine started with minimal use. How about yours?

[FOBOS]

Yeah Tac45, mine started within the first fifteen to twenty extraction/insertions. It's kind of addictive , but getting it struck while trying to put the knife back in the sheath sucks. I found in a round about way, before reading your post that if I take it off the nylon and just use the sheath, no problems. It is definably the attachment strap behind the guard clip that does it.

[Tac45]

I was just reading Gerbers Warranty. They specify 'product' which to me means that the warranty is not limited to the knife itself. If the sheath design prevents proper usage of the whole product then obviously it must be deemed defective. The fact that the newer design sheath is built different indicates that the company has realised the early sheath design is flawed and unusable for its intended purpose.

It may be worth a try getting a replacement sheath. If they haven't manufactured the coyote sheaths in the newer design maybe they would replace it with a foliage one. The coyote knife in the foliage sheath looks quite good. I'm sure the black would too. Apart from fixing the sheath dilema you coluld be making a bold fashion statement. Truly the mark of a dazzling urbanite!

Jokes aside. the warranty doesn't do me much good as I am on the other side of the world and for the cost of return freight I could buy another knife.

[FOBOS]

He I may try contacting Gerber, it is B.S. that someone would pay that kind of money and not be able to use their sheath correctly. BTW, where are you at Tac45? I live in Central Montana.

[Tac45]

I'm in Australia.

[Leigh]

Yes, normal drawing and inserting back into the sheath.

Turns out those rubber-coated "tabs" (for lack of better words) were molded too close to each other (fron to back) which placed a ton of stress on them when inserting the knife into the sheath. It actually took two hands to draw the knife, that is how tight it was!!!

The replacement sheath was correctly molded in that area but also had the velcro backing and not the two screws like on the foliage sheath.

An interesting note, the first sheath had the two snap fastener buttons exposed on the webbing unlike the latter-production sheaths.

[Sharp]

That's really odd for the LMF II sheath. My black looks nothing like either of those.

[Tac45]

Post a picture of your sheath Sharp. Could it be that all three colours have a different sheath?

[Sharp]

I think so. Here it is minus the leg strap. The nylon part is extremely thick and heavily stitched. Really heavy duty works.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0088-5.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0089-5.jpg

I've got no problems with mine so far.

[FOBOS]

Hey sharp, that sheath looks nothing like mine. I got the one that binds. I'm gonna contact Gerber and see if I can't get a better one, with the screws/bolts or whatever.

[Izan]

Here is some pics of my sheath. I just bought this knife on Sunday and Cabelas said that it and 20 or so others just came in from Gerber. Maybe this is is a different version also. I also noticed that I have 2 Velcro straps that hold the plastic part of the sheath on, did you guys remove your second strap?



http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8813/p1010741do0.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/3964/p1010742ds9.jpg

[Tac45]

Wow sheath style number four. Actually I think that is the first sheath style they made. I recall seeing pictures of the coyote one like that well before I got mine. I guess they thought having two straps was an extra cost.

I've never compared one of these with the Ontario ASEK. It seems the Gerber is a more solid knife looking at the photos. I wonder when the contract called for a new Air Force survival knife if maybe Gerber lost out because of the sheath. It is an awsome sheath but the earlier web attachments have problems. The military like to buy the whole product. The specifications for the M9 included the sheath. Just a theory. Does anyone know?

[Sharp]

It also has a Molle attachment for the lower part of sheath that I forgot to include.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0090-7.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0091-4.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0092-6.jpg

Here's how the thing is attached. Fairly well executed I must say.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0093-3.jpg

[Sharp]

The nylon backing is also fairly heavy duty.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee292/The_Aaij_1/DSC_0094-4.jpg

The sheath that you guys have is really different.

[Tac45]

Sharp. That's a handy attachment to have. If you don't use it on your knife you can use it to attach some other gear. How long have you had this particular knife?

[Sharp]

I'm actually not quite sure, I think I might have had my LMF for almost a year now.

[Thecarotidpulse]

Hey Guys,

what do you think of this one:

First off handling of the partial serrations on the near side of the blade. I tend to be affraid of using my serrations for fear of dulling them, then having to sharpen them.

Consequently I use the far portion of the blade, which reduces my cutting strength when using a fore-grip.
How have you guys approached this problem? Do you baby your serrations? If not how do you sharpen them?

Secondly how do you like the V notch sharpener?
I've only tried it a few times, and I find that yes it'll get an edge on, but that the edge isnt of very good quality. I.e the angle is irregular if you pause while drawing it through etc.
I've found that it needs A LOT of stroping to make it smooth.

What do you guys think? do you use the V notch sharpener or do you use a stone?

If you use a stone then what I want to know is how did the finish react to the blade being drawn against the stone? there is paint there =/

Ok so lets see what you guys have to say about that!

[Tac45]

Hi ya Pulse. Welcome. I wouldn't worry about babying the knife. Have a look at the destruction video on Knife Tests.com. It a very hardy knife.

My two are not that old and havn't been field tested but here is some information you may like. I have many knives with serrations they can be both a benefit and a hindrance.

The V notch sharpener. The knife was designed as competition to Ontarios ASEK knife which is military issue. Instead of having a seperate sharpener it was incorporated into the sheath. Ontarios Marine Corps issue bayonet the OKC3s and the earlier M9 scabbards have sharpeners attached. The ASEK knife is a substitute for the USAF survival knife which had a seperate shapening stone in a pouch. All of these sharpeners like the one on the LMF sheath are there purely as a field expedient piece of equipment. You might say emergency use. That is all the V notch is for really. It will keep the edge useful in the field. It is the same as those V notch sharpeners you can buy in places that sell knives. They are not meant to make quality edges. Just edges that will cut. Use a stone or a diamond steel. leave the V notch for when you need to use the knife and don't have anything better.

Sharpening serrations. Now that requires a sharpener made for serrations. Spyderco make one that will do this job. There others of course but this is a common and popular one. In the field the V Notch won't help the serrations.

The finish of the knife will come off if it contacts any abrasive surface. Scratches etc are a fact of life with a coated blade. Some will last longer than others but all will show signs of usage.

I hope some of this information helps. Check out the video.....It sure surprised me.

[Thecarotidpulse]

Ok Tac that's great =)

I've watched the vid, they are what made me get the knife in the first place!

I figured that a knife that would bend that much rather than chip under impact would be perfect for winter and colder climates where steel becomes more brittle.
(i do a lot of winter stuff)

Also I think the serrations will come in very handy come winter time.


Ok I'll look into the spyderco sharpener.

Thanks!

[Tac45]

You are welcome. I must admit living in Australia I don't think I will ever use a knife in temperatures that would cause the metal to be brittle. Our winters are what folks in the Northern Hemisphere would probably call an annoying little cold snap!

[Thecarotidpulse]

Aye well then I wish you well from Ottawa Canada =D

I hate bugs and such so I'll gladly go out camping in -40 C in the snow.... I've seen the temp break knives like mirrors (so much for telling people to keep them in their coats).

[Tac45]

"I'll gladly go out camping in -40 C in the snow.... I've seen the temp break knives like mirrors (so much for telling people to keep them in their coats)."

Is that what they call cryogenic treatment? ha ha ha ha.

[doubletap]

This is a very interesting thread! It is interesting to see how the LMF II is evolving. It looks like it is really a tough knife with a good sheath system that has maybe a few bugs that they look like they are working on.
I wish Gerber would offer the LMF II with a plain edge. They have Black ones,Green ones, Tan ones, even a lower end version the Prodigy. It looks like there would be enough of a demand to produce one. I emailed Gerber enough times (3 or 4 over a year period) that they stopped replying to me. Would any of you guys be intersted in a plain edge LMF II? If you would maybe you would like to drop Gerber an email at their web site. Gerbergear.com Thanks.


John