do these 2 lines make any sense

[Richard J]

just like the title says. answer yes or no please and hold any comments. here is the first line. each one is from different posts made on different dates. the person is talking about sharpening a knife but not with the paper wheels. do they contradict each other?
"i need to use them to minimize and break the burr more than polish the edge. it does polish the edge, but i do it mostly to make it easier to get the burr off on a strop"

here is the second line.
"i use them for polishing an already sharpened edge to a higher grit level."

[culpeper]

Yes, each line makes sense?

[N.D.]

Yes they seem to contradict each other, but . . .

N.D. :rolleyes:

[wildjim]

Not for me, out of context uncommon terminology.

As curly would say "are you giving me the double talk"

[The Tourist]

I vote with a definite, certain, unwavering, stoic, firm response of "maybe."

I use lots of tools in atypical ways. I've used whitening toothpaste. Sometimes something works, sometimes it doesn't. Many times "conventional wisdom" is a crock.

There is only one standard, and that being, is the knife sharp.

For one, I have no use for mechanized tools. In the hands of a professional they are a valuable tool. To "Fred the neighborhood idiot" they are the best way to ruin cutlery.

Even among professionals there are shaky procedures. I've seen one "pro" use two machines for Japanese knives--one coarse wheel, one cloth wheel. After looking at his tools I'd rather drag a knife on the sidewalk.

My question is simple. Are we talking about Bob Loveless, or are we referring to a guy with a Sears grinder he got for his birthday?

[Richard J]

i'm talking about a kid who made his own paper wheels but with cardboard. i seen 2 knives he sharpened and they were dull as butterknives. he made these posts in 2 seperate threads at 2 different dates. i have used paper wheels for over 18 years with great results. i talked to a guy who has over 10 years in the paper/cardboard business and he said his contraption woulld act more like an abrasive wheel and work up a burr more than take it off. you can use flat cardboard to strop an edge just fine. his contraption was dangerous too with all the holes just waiting to catch the tip and send the knife flying.

[The Tourist]

I will try not to be self-serving here, but most of the folks I've seen in the sharpening trade should be shoe salesmen. Off the top of my head I cannot think of one guy who has ever cracked a history book, and maybe one other guy who has studied alternative ways of sharpening--and that guy invented stuff and taught me.

Frankly, these hacks think that when I joke about a "wet rock on a dull knife" I have just provided them with the entire seminar. They think micro-bevels is something you buy with pretzels at a micro-brewery.

In truth, the reason I got into sharpening was to keep sharpeners away from my knives.

[kurodrago]

I will try not to be self-serving here, but most of the folks I've seen in the sharpening trade should be shoe salesmen. Off the top of my head I cannot think of one guy who has ever cracked a history book, and maybe one other guy who has studied alternative ways of sharpening--and that guy invented stuff and taught me.

Frankly, these hacks think that when I joke about a "wet rock on a dull knife" I have just provided them with the entire seminar. They think micro-bevels is something you buy with pretzels at a micro-brewery.

In truth, the reason I got into sharpening was to keep sharpeners away from my knives.

I agree becouse you're more old than me:):D:thumb:
Well said:rockon:

[The Tourist]

My age was an exciting time! 'Fire' had just been invented and then we clearly got to see the 'dirt' that had been invented the year before. One of my friends got run over by a new thingamajig called a 'wheel.'

My cave-mate Harley said that if we fastened two of those 'wheels' together it would be safer.

I told him that a guy named Davidson in the next cave was carving something called an 'axle.'

[kurodrago]

My philosophy is very ordinary.
Learn to use stone's & file's before anything else...for the simple reason that you can put both in your pocket:D

[The Tourist]

Learn to use stone's & file's before anything else.

If your comment was directed at only the members here, I might agree. I do not believe this is possible for the general public. Contrary to what urban legends might imply, there are barbers who cannot sharpen a razor, butchers who cannot refine their knives, and soldiers who are clueless about the very survival knives their trust their lives to.

Not everyone can sing, not everyone can sharpen. One 'guru' stated flatly in another forum that 99% of the people in this country have never really used a sharp knife. After getting to know him I have my doubts about even his ability to sharpen.

The problem is not the knives or the honing skills, it's our perception. All "real men" pride themselves on their marksmanship, the edge on their knives and their prowess with women. Most are abject failures. Tell one of these guys his knife is dull and you might as well have told him that his mother is a lousy lay. Most of guys I know cannot even drive a manual transmission much less sharpen a decent knife.

Like any other skill, sharpening a knife takes patience, a little study, and the ability to admit that you don't know everything. Someday I hope to know as much about refining edges as Dwade Hawley, a man universally accepted as the best sharpener in the known world. Every time I talk to him on the telephone I learn something. And that guy hones precision edges for hospital equipment!

[Madnumforce]

But I carry only "soft" steel pocket knives (and, rarely, fixed), and hone it to "popping hair sharpness" just with a Blue Belgian Whetstone, a yellow Coticule, and a two side honing leather, which is enough for me. Yes, of course, my edges are not esthetically perfect, but they do cut, and as my usual knives have only thin blade with almost no bevel, I tend to believe that even with their soft steel, they cut better than some high-tech knives. Today I just exhumed from a drawer a traditionnal french pocket knife (that model (http://www.fontenille-pataud.com/plus_de_photos_aurillac-11-cm--bois-de-violette_Z479xfr.html), but not from Fontenille-Pataud) with a 12C27 blade I mounted and polished one or two years ago, and sharpened it. I am very pleased of it's sharpness now, and it took less than 10 minutes. It's not "japanese sharp", but it's almost as sharp a a straight razor, and that's quite enough. That's what I will call the: Sharp Enough No Hassle Edge, SENHE.

[The Tourist]

But I carry only "soft" steel pocket knives (and, rarely, fixed), and hone it to "popping hair sharpness".

That's my point. This is important enough to you to learn how to do it well. Yikes, I know guys who think they can sharpen any knife by spitting on a brick.

Even on forums that have designated sharpening sections I have read the most ridiculous comments on both the act of sharpening and its history. This sphere of misinformation is so widespread that I do not hand over my personal EDCs to rookies anymore. In our discussions, everyone claims to be an 'expert.' In the past this boasting has just left me with blood to clean off my knife.

And even with a stern warning, everyone single one of these clowns rubs his thumb on my edges!

The skills that members here take for granted are simply not shared by the general public. And even if you and I authored a book with references, pictures, videos, links to history and discount coupons, there would still be a large demographic who claimed to "know better."

And it's not just knives. I still run into guys at the dealership--folks who have never turned a wrench--but insist that to properly break in a new engine you just "ride it like you stole it." It's easy to find their bikes--look for the drip marks...

[kurodrago]

If your comment was directed at only the members here, I might agree. I do not believe this is possible for the general public. Contrary to what urban legends might imply, there are barbers who cannot sharpen a razor, butchers who cannot refine their knives, and soldiers who are clueless about the very survival knives their trust their lives to.


My comment is directed to everybody & especially to knife nuts.
I have to say, any big knife where we speak to take out lots of steel off..
I my agree to send to a knifemaker for a reprofile the edge but even in this case, you have to know how to do it youself using hands tools only...just in case

[The Tourist]

Like any activity, tracking people is a bell-shaped curve. Some people will know everything, some people will know nothing, and most people know a little bit. Even avid hobbyists are in that mix. One of my best best clients owns hundreds of knives and cannot sharpen at all. In the opposite case, somewhere out there is a very serious guy who has a limited number of knives, but they are all razor sharp.

There's an old saying, "Beware the man with only one gun."

However, one thing I find is that if a hobbyist takes the time to register and contribute to a forum about his interests, he probably feels that this issue is extremely important. Over time the casual lurker will drift off to another interest, like ballroom dancing or coin collecting.

A guy who goes the distance reads all he can. And sharpening and knife maintenance become a serious central concern for a guy like that. He may have to work hard to learn how to sharpen because not everyone has that skill. But if his interest is sincere, he will strive to achieve that goal.

[zhangmaster12]

Hey Richard J!
I remember talking to you about that kid on the phone quite a while ago.
Fortunately, for himself and his customer, he no longer uses homemade cardboard wheels :D!
I remember, while i was frequenting WSS, he definetely "outgrew" his sharpening stupidity. Hes doing americorps (i think...) right now, but he learned to put a pretty good edge on his knives and his customer's using a HF belt sander. He has also put some pretty usefull WSS info up as well.
Besides his sometimes stupid stubborn-ness (as me and you both now well enough with the cardboard wheels), his weird antics, I must admit, he has put some pretty good info on wilderness survival up.