Anza-Kukri-Sax-Wetterlings

[wildjim]

Some new tools ; )

All tools, knives should come as sharp as the Wetterlings Axe!

[Madnumforce]

Isn't it a carpenter's axe? I recognize the choil of the head. When you'll put it in use, would you give some fedback? I'm interested.
But i don't really see the interest of the so called "sax" design of CS machetes. The latin and bolo are the most versatile and efficient, with the mass more forward, and thus making sweeps more powerful. Except using it as a fighting tool, the pointy tip of the "sax" machete seem weak and useless, IMO.

[wildjim]

Isn't it a carpenter's axe? I recognize the choil of the head. When you'll put it in use, would you give some fedback? I'm interested.
But i don't really see the interest of the so called "sax" design of CS machetes. The latin and bolo are the most versatile and efficient, with the mass more forward, and thus making sweeps more powerful. Except using it as a fighting tool, the pointy tip of the "sax" machete seem weak and useless, IMO.

Yeah its a carpenter's axe. I am not a carpenter but I like the idea of a multiple use tool. The Cold Steel Sax machete is described as an old world Scandinavian design, I like Scandinavian knives as well as Wharncliffe style blades. I imagine it'll be a fair chopper an excellent all around camp knife. Although I'll probably take the Cold Steel Kukri on the next camping trip.

[Madnumforce]

In fact, sax, seax or scramasax was a very general word, and could as well mean a 5" every day use knife, as well for the farmer, warrior or wife, then a long combat weapon, almost as long as a sword. It was spread over all germanic countries during the Antiquity, and i've seen only a few example (in fact: any) with the blade shape chosen by CS. There is generally two kind of blade design: one similar to a long, narrow sage leaf, with the cutting edge making the straighter border, and one with both spine and edge straight, rejoining in a kind of sheepfoot. And two kinds of assembly, one with the rat tang which evolved in the viking and later bastard sword, and one with the full tang that evolved in Grosse Messer, cutlass and such. So in fact, this "sax" naming is kind of inapropriate for this wharncliff machete... as well as the celtic knots on CS viking sword (viking were a germanic people).

[wildjim]

I did some casual research on the internet of Scandinavian Sax machete and found a photo of a Sax sword from which it is said the Saxon people may have derived their name. The rusted old sword from the photo maybe "loosely" interpreted into a Sax "machete" design as Cold Steel's Sax machete considering I didn't find a reference specifically for a Sax "machete"

The Lord Wharncliffe Machete may be a better description of Cold Steel's Sax machete? ; )

Reference: http://www.georgehernandez.com/h/xMartialArts/Gear/Swords.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seax

I also read Lynn Thompson is found of Finnish design and his intrepretation of the Puukko knife as the Finn Bear and Sisu is good.

All I can do at this point is defer to your's and Lynn Thompson's experience ; )

If you have any other Scandinavian information and reference, I am interested.

I also ordered two 14" and 18" Tramontina machetes not pictured.

[Madnumforce]

I've read and heard much good about Tramontina machetes. There are so many machete brands, i don't know if some are really better. Could you give us feedbacks when you'll have them put in use?

About sax, on Wiki page, you can find in the source an archeological document in german, but well illustrated with lot of scram and swords (begin seriously page 219):
http://ubm.opus.hbz-nrw.de/volltexte/2006/907/pdf/diss.pdf
I have found another document, in swedish this time, more synthetic and not as well illustrated. I both documents, lacks informations about the broken-back type of sax, which appeared in England, it seems, but you can see there:
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_seax.html

[wildjim]

I've read and heard much good about Tramontina machetes. There are so many machete brands, i don't know if some are really better. Could you give us feedbacks when you'll have them put in use?

About sax, on Wiki page, you can find in the source an archeological document in german, but well illustrated with lot of scram and swords (begin seriously page 219):
http://ubm.opus.hbz-nrw.de/volltexte/2006/907/pdf/diss.pdf
I have found another document, in swedish this time, more synthetic and not as well illustrated. I both documents, lacks informations about the broken-back type of sax, which appeared in England, it seems, but you can see there:
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_seax.html

The Tramontina machetes I have recently purchased are a bit lighter than the Cold Steel machetes. Tramontina seems to to design machetes for blade speed over blade force; although they have a weight forward feel to them.

Looking at all the corroded blades, one thing is for sure they could benefited from a little chromium in their steel ; )

I'll try to report my machete use if you wish but I am really new to knives and have no technique (yet) Maybe that's a good thing as I can learn proper machete use initially. I've watched a video with Ray Mears describing how the swing, chop with a machete. I'll read some more as I find information. I watched some knife fighting videos and I seem to have a natural (fluid) talent for switching one handed knife postions ; )

[Madnumforce]

Anyway, you quickly find what move is more effective and convenient. I noticed it: when a tool is well made, even if you never handled one you easily find how it should be used. Between the body, the arm, and the tool, it's like a chain. The tool is optimised to be the most efficient with the most efficient handling, so that there is kind of harmony in the whole use, and even as a beginner, you feel what's right and what's wrong, if you "listen" carefully to your body, to the tool and to the job done.

[Noss]

Great looking combo of blades :rockon:

[xxo]

Tramontina machetes are good but you need to put some work into them such as sanding/shaping/finishing the wood handles, profiling and sharpening the edge and buying or making a sheath. When you are done they make good hard working machetes, though not the best for chopping because of their thin blade stock.


Martindales are similar a few have thicker blade stock but most seem to be thin. Martindales cost more than Trams but are not much better quality, you still have to put the same type of work into the edges and wood handles.


Cold steel machetes (made in South Africa) are good too. The factory edges suck but once you get 'em sharp they are very good hard working machetes. The handles on these are tough plastic so they won't break and do not need to be fitted to the tangs...some come with sheaths but these are kind of flimsy.


Ontario machetes are nice, considered to be a step up in quality (and also a bit in price) from the above machetes. Ontario uses fairly thick 1095 stock for their blades so they are good choppers and hold a good edge, but they are heavy. From the ontario machetes will need to be sharpened as with most machetes, and you will need to buy a sheath seperately (the Army surplus plastic sheaths work well).


Condor - these seem to be the nicest as they come from the factory...fully sharpened with a good quality leather sheath. Condors do cost more than the others mentioned but they may well be the best buy when you factor in the costs/time spent on sharpening and a decent sheath.



The ones I have used and would recommend:


Tramontina 14" (wooden handle) & 18" (plastic handle).

Cold Steel 18" Latin (with optional "survival" sheath) & Kukri machete (see Noss's D test on this one).

Ontario 12" and 18" (OKC models with the orange plastic handles).

Condor Inca knife and possibly a 18" outback machete (haven't used this one yet).

[wildjim]

The Tramontina machetes all came with an uneven rough edge but sharpened easily, I will work to even the edge and make it smooth and sharp. The Cold Steel machetes seem dull out of the box but its just the black coating over the edge, I ran it over the ceramic rod for awhile and its very sharp.

I am amazed at how sharp the Wetterling axe is, it should shave easily. The Anza knives sharpen easily and get very sharp. All are a bargin.

[wildjim]

I've read and heard much good about Tramontina machetes. There are so many machete brands, i don't know if some are really better. Could you give us feedbacks when you'll have them put in use?

About sax, on Wiki page, you can find in the source an archeological document in german, but well illustrated with lot of scram and swords (begin seriously page 219):
http://ubm.opus.hbz-nrw.de/volltexte/2006/907/pdf/diss.pdf
I have found another document, in swedish this time, more synthetic and not as well illustrated. I both documents, lacks informations about the broken-back type of sax, which appeared in England, it seems, but you can see there:
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_seax.html


I found a British forum thread somewhat about Seax, Sax knives with pictures further down the thread if you're interested:

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77270

I hope its ok to use other forum threads for reference? : )

I am running out of forums to get banned from ; )

[wildjim]

Great looking combo of blades :rockon:

Thank You again for the great Knife Test of the Cold Steel Kukri Machete, I purchased two. They should last me a life time ; )

[Madnumforce]

I found a British forum thread somewhat about Seax, Sax knives with pictures further down the thread if you're interested:

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77270

I hope its ok to use other forum threads for reference? : )

I am running out of forums to get banned from ; )

Interesting link you've posted here. Look on the first picture posted in the first page of the thread, doesn't blade #19 looks like a bowie blade?

[wildjim]

Interesting link you've posted here. Look on the first picture posted in the first page of the thread, doesn't blade #19 looks like a bowie blade?

Dang! The Bowie knife is actually a Scandinavian design ; )

But really it seems there was a lot of blade design variation (artistic expression) with the Sax, Seax knives. Interesting. . .

[Madnumforce]

Dang! The Bowie knife is actually a Scandinavian design ; )

But really it seems there was a lot of blade design variation (artistic expression) with the Sax, Seax knives. Interesting. . .

Actually, the broken back design seems to be typically from England (don't know what's the name of the "tribe" that lived there during this period... saxons i guess), and this particular design (blade #19) was found in the Thames. May it be that this design survived, and went with the colons to America, were it reborn? Or is it that this design is the very expression of the "soul" of a people, which live through every individual of this "race", or tribe, or ethny, and can be regenerated even centuries later? Or is it simply it's a convenient and efficient design, that met as well the needs of the 6th or 8th century as of the rough life in 19th century in America?

[xxo]

Some do look a lot like Bowies but the don't look like they were designed for back cutting. Could be wrong on this.